Can't decide on a Zeagle

[The Chairman]

I had a brief stint with horseshoes and their ability to adjust lift between left and right - with the ultimate conclusion that I hardly took any advantage of it the few times it was applicable.

Donuts are a solution looking for a problem. There are dumps on both sides of an Express Tech. I have had no issues with mine.

 

[jgttrey]

I think you'll be happy (though I hope it was more "steering" than "scaring").

First, you said your LDS carries Hollis gear, so I would recommend talking to them about it. There's no need to stick to Zeagle at this point (but no big harm either). If you want to look online, look at Dive Rite, Halcyon, OMS (many others too). Dive Gear Express is a "go to" supplier of more technically oriented dive gear.

However, I'll say again that if you have a good relationship with your LDS and/or wherever you are taking your instruction, that might be the first place to learn - unless they just don't like tech stuff and want to put you in a poodle jacket. In which case, I'd find a new LDS.

You have several decisions:

1. Backplate material - usually aluminum (travel friendly) or stainless steel (3-4 lbs heavier and thus less travel friendly, but awesome because if you need weight, it's better there than on your belt). There are kydex plates and hybrids, but I think you can safely ignore those for now.

2. Harness type. The most basic, simple and bullet proof is the continuous weave, which is (duh) one long piece of webbing. No failure points. Your OP said you are fit and athletic, so this would work for you. Some of us more, ahem, portly types sometimes prefer a harness like the Dive-Rite Deluxe or Transplate. If you go to Dive-Rite's website, you can see all three types next to each other. Many other manufacturers have their versions of those things.

3. Wing lift. This depends on the type of diving you are doing. Tropical diving with only a thin suit, maybe 20-26lbs. If you are diving steel tanks, thick wetsuits or drysuits, you'd want more lift. Again, I'd probably visit with my LDS about this. You can always buy a second wing later rather than try to get one wing to do everything.

I saw, for example, a very nice DSS 18lb wing for sale on this forum for 225, I think, which would be awesome for tropical diving but would not probably cut it for a 7mm wetsuit with a lot of lead.

4. Wing shape. Donuts and horsehoes are both fine, the difference being, obviously, whether the air bladder "connects up" a the bottom. There are some posts above that discuss this. My personal opinion is that it doesn't matter that much.

5. Typically, yes, a weight belt for your lead. There are some accessory sorts of pockets that mount on the waistbelt and secure to the backplate than can hold dumpable weight, but most people use a belt.

 

[Tournesol2000]

Ok, well you guys have officially scared/steered me towards the bp/w. As much as I like the idea of what out-of-the-box convenience the Covert XT is offering, the valid concerns you all have raised are giving me pause.

I have to admit, I'm a MOLLE fan. I still have a lot of issued and privately purchased tac gear and it is all MOLLE compatible. The facts that it's not standard in diving (despite what looks to ME to be an awesomely huge supply of attachment points on the vest for clips etc etc), that there are also not a lot of current accessory options available for it, and that it has a yet unproven resistance to water damage at the MOLLE snap attachment points and could require a fair bit of snap maintenance and lube are all causing me concern.

That said, I still like the idea of the out-of-the-box convenience of a BCD. Things like padded shoulder straps, lumbar pads and most importantly the confidence an all in one unit made by professionals that wasn't assembled by a novice like myself are all very appealing.

So, if I decide to go the bp/w route, what suggestions can you make on brands, style and accessories based on my diving desires and goals that I previously stated on page 1?

How about this offering from Zeagle? Is the wing removable?
Backplate Combo

The recent comments debated advantages and disadvantages of horseshoe vs donut; something I hadn't considered or even known was a thing until now. The BP link above is a donut, whereas the Covert XT (I believe) was a horseshoe. Are these important determining factors?

Are most of you using a weight belt in conjunction with the bp/w system? What are go to accessories or purchases when starting out on your bp/w setup?

Thanks!

I got the Zeagle backplate combo. It’s good. I could have bought another brand cheaper, but the quality seems to be there.
Good luck with your final decision

 

[Blasto]

Things like padded shoulder straps, lumbar pads and most importantly the confidence an all in one unit made by professionals that wasn't assembled by a novice like myself are all very appealing.

It can take a couple hours to assemble a harness from scratch for the first time, but it's hard to do it wrong.
That said, DGX offers pre-assembled combos for their more complex harnesses. The Transplate is great for carrying gear on land on your back, no need for it otherwise.

Padded shoulder straps are only useful with those Transplate territory long land walks. Soft backs are not pointless and can improve comfort. Weight belts with Hogarthian (simple) harnesses; some more complex harnesses with crotch straps use integrated weight pockets instead.

A basic Hogarthian harness like this is trivially easy to put together; all of the effort comes down to in sizing it just right for you. Some shops still offer them pre-assembled for free or a token payment like $10.

Like @jgttrey said, in the tropics, smaller is better, I consider as little as 17 lbs to be perfectly fine. If you dive in colder waters in a thick wetsuit/semi-dry or a drysuit, OTOH, lift deserves separate consideration.

The recent comments debated advantages and disadvantages of horseshoe vs donut; something I hadn't considered or even known was a thing until now. The BP link above is a donut, whereas the Covert XT (I believe) was a horseshoe. Are these important determining factors?

Not really. If I was making a system with the goal of being as easy to train OW students in as possible, I'd use a donut wing. If I need to dive in one... both are fine, but I still just find donuts to behave a little closer to the way I like to expect. Most of the time you won't know the difference.

 

[JamesBon92007]

If price is a consideration you might want to take a look at this:

Zeagle Express Tech Deluxe BC Open Box/Demo/Like New

That's the deal I got and it came with a back pad and shoulder pads, both of which I removed (it said they were not included so you might not get them). The only reason I can see for shoulder pads is, as was mentioned, those long hikes to the dive spot. I'm pretty sure that it even came with an inflator hose. So, if the thin waist straps and the side-release buckle don't bother you then it's almost ready-to-go out of the box, except for the crotch strap. I made mine from a couple of 1" side-release buckles and some nylon webbing. They also sell the weight pockets and I saw some not too long ago that were "Demo" for about half price. Personally I can get by with my weight belt until I get around to making my own weight pockets.

I've bought several things from Scuba.com and so far they've been great except they sent me a black weight belt instead of the back-ordered blue one, plus one time they sent me a LP gauge instead of a 4000 psi gauge but they made good. Considering the deals I've gotten from them it has been worth any small hassles.

 

[stash3630]

Sigh...so here's a new wrinkle. My instructor just offered me a brand new, package deal of a:

Hollis HD-200 BCD
Hollis 200LX + DCX Yoke Reg
Hollis 150LX Octo
Oceanic VEO 2.0 Dive Computer SWIV Double Gauge Combo

All for right at $1000 usd brand new.

What y'all think about that? Seems like a screaming deal...

 

[stash3630]

My above post notwithstanding, what's the best out the box and ready to roll bp/w setup?

In other words, if I'm going to go with a bp/w, I want the best product that's going to arrive the most fleshed out. I get that I can start with just the backplate, then choose a wing, then choose webbing, then rings, etc etc. But that's what is ultimately turning me off from the bp/w; the seemingly overwhelming myriad of choices.

The one stop shop aspect of bc's are what's most appealing to me. I swipe my credit card and boom, I'm off to the races. The system is dialed and designed by professionals, aka not me. The thought of so many similar options with bp/w and the trial and error that appears to come with bp/w is daunting. As a result, I'm willing and prefer to pay a premium to 1) avoid that to some degree and 2) get a kick ass setup; even by bp/w standards.

So all that being said, if price weren't a factor and you wanted to get the absolute most out of a single bp/w purchase (ie. reduce or eliminate excess or extra accessory purchases), which brand and which model are you going with?

 

[GlennL]

I wasted a lot of money figuring out what I wanted. Now I am BP/W and will be teaching my 11 year old daughter this summer in a BP/W setup. the back plate and wing is the one stop shop you mention that you want. My harness is adjusted to fit me. I usually dive doubles, but when i need to go single its just a matter of using a different wing and bolting up the sta rather than to the doubles. the only trial and error i had with BP/W was foolishly trying to get a "do it all wing" from the get go. There are singles wings and doubles wings. There, that is your trial and error.

 

[jgttrey]

The one stop shop aspect of bc's are what's most appealing to me. I swipe my credit card and boom, I'm off to the races. The system is dialed and designed by professionals,

That's the trade. Sure, it's ready to go and you don't have to decide anything. But, you also can't change very much and it may not be "dialed in" for what YOU want.

So all that being said, if price weren't a factor and you wanted to get the absolute most out of a single bp/w purchase (ie. reduce or eliminate excess or extra accessory purchases), which brand and which model are you going with?

The whole point is less is more - until you have a specific need. Don't complicate it by wanting to start all tricked out with some package with a bunch of junk you dont yet know if you'll need. There really aren't many decisions.

My advice if you bp/w:

unless you are counting ounces traveling, get SS backplate

Unless you are diving cold water in a thick suit, get a 20-26 lb wing

Start with a basic hogarthian harness. Even if you later decide on something fancy, the hog harness costs nothing and will probably work great for you.

Get a weight belt

Go dive.

Really, that's it.

Go look at Dive Gear Express at their packages for a start or talk to your LDS. If Deep Sea Supply wasn't on hiatus while relocating, my advice would have been to call Tobin and have him set you up. His stuff is A-1 and he was great about talking me through my first setup when I had similar questions.