Can't decide on a Zeagle

[JamesBon92007]

The Express Tech is extremely "travel friendly".

I got the Express Tech (not aimed at you, The Chariman, but since you mentioned it...) and although it is compact it still did not accomplish my desire to get all my gear into my carry-on. I made a travel BC from stuff I had laying around and that's what I'm traveling with now.

Some of the following may apply to other Zeagles:

What I don't like about the Zeagle Express Tech: the waist straps it came with were flimsy so I replaced them with weight belt straps (heavy nylon) and I didn't like the side-release buckle so I replaced it with an old-fashioned quick-release buckle. It really needs a crotch strap so I added one. I think the top tank strap is situated too high and there's no way to lower it. I would like the tank just a bit lower on my back.

What I do like about it: it's very good quality, the Velcro strap that holds the inflator hoses is very well-designed, it can be switched to double tank use, the oral inflator is at a 90 degree angle, and it has 24 pounds of lift which is way more than I think I will ever need. You can easily unscrew the oral inflator and rinse it with a garden hose. Besides that some people are impressed because it says "Zeagle" on it Nobody is impressed with my home-made back wing, except me. I'd like to say some of the fish are but in reality I don't think they really care all that much but many do come in for a close look so I get some good videos.

If I was to start all over I would probably get a stainless steel back plate, harness with quick-release buckle, and a compact wing with an oral inflator equal to the one on my Zeagle. I've seen divers with compact wings but never seem to find them online. Until my home-made BC craps out I'm no longer looking. So far no dive ops have said a word about it.

 

[snowdog61]

I've had a Stiletto for 8 years - still like it very much BUT.... if I had to do it over, I'd be looking at a BPW. No real issues with it but there are things that wouldn't be present with a purpose built BPW. Stiletto has a 35lb lift bladder - more than I need but wouldn't say it's too excessive. It has come in handy when pulling some anchors off the bottom and no lift bag. Ranger I believe has 44lb wing - unless you are planning doubles that is an overkill. Not thrilled about the smallish floppy D-rings on the BC - I can sling a 19CF pony easily along with SMB/spool, lights, etc but it would be nice if they were a bit larger and at a fixed angle as it would be easier to clip-off when you're trying to re-attach your gear. The only other thing that I actually find annoying are the front zipper pockets - it never seems to want to zip up (down physically) and takes 2 hands to close it (or some buddy assistance). I do like the build quality and durability of the rig. Still looks good with over 8 yr/500 dives on it. I've replaced the ridiculously long corrugated hose and added a tank weight trim pouch on the upper band but otherwise it hasn't been touched other than dive, rinse, repeat. Hard to justify ditching it over a few nits without a solid reason but again, if I had to do it over....

 

[Aviyes]

I can't imagine I'm the only one having this issue, but I really hate the tank straps with the big plastic handles on the Ranger when doing a boat dive which has big solid plastic tank holders (which you see a lot down in Florida). It's just impossible to do up the bottom band, unless you lift up the whole set-up with the tank with one hand while the boat is rocking and then quickly lock down the bottom strap. Anyone have an elegant solution for this? ;-)

You just need a couple inches high block to place the tank on. Allows both cam bands to be above the white plastic tank holder. I have had the same issue.

 

[txgoose]

I have a Covert. I am 50/50 on the like it/dislike it scale. But I got it at a great price so no real regrets.

Pros:
* Very lightweight.
* Can be packed down almost to the size of a major city Sunday newspaper.
* Nothing to fiddle with on the BC so it is super simple.
* I like the garden hose inflator rinse.
Cons:
* Zero storage. If you are a techie with pocket shorts, you don't care. If you want to significantly raise the price by adding pockets, you may also not care. For the rest of us, we're going to look like the proverbial Christmas tree. Which brings us to the next con.
* Two plastic chest d-rings. And two d-rings on the ends of the waist strap (so they consequently hang very low.)

I have since added two Dive-Rite Offset D-Rings on my lower tank band. As a person working towards AOW later this summer, I am chose to put bolt snaps on my backup light, spool and DSMB and hang them from my tank band. It functions well enough.

 

[jgttrey]

Two things. First, a lot of divers that use BP/W prefer to clip their equipment to the outside of the harness, using D-rings and Swedish clips or carabiners, with bungees to additionally streamline some items.

Personally, I clip everything that's not being inflated to myself, in a pocket or not - I'm not rich enough to share my gear with the ocean floor.

Pockets are easily added to the harness. You just thread the webbing through the pocket and a triglide to keep it in place. Weight and trim pockets are common. The name of the game with the BP/W style is customization - you order exactly the pocket that you want (small or large, solid or mesh, etc) and place it exactly where you like it.

It takes more time to set up than a jacket, but the idea is that you adjust the system to your exact needs rather than adapt to what someone else designed as some middle ground. Since there's so many to choose from, online ordering is the norm for accessories.

Yes.

The more I dive, the less desire I have for pockets on my harness. That's one of those things that seems important in the abstract, but really isn't. SMB/safety sausage bungeed to the base of the plate, lights clipped to d-rings, etc.

The problem with pockets on the harness, IMHO, is that (a) they clutter the harness (b) I'm a lot more likely fumble something coming out of a pocket than snapped to the outside (c) for things like a light, I might want it many times over the course of a dive and pockets are much more awkward, and (d) pockets big enough to really be useful would be far too big for a BCD. Try sticking a backup mask in a Stiletto pocket....

I think you will really find that having an "open" feel on your sides and chest is a great thing compared to "wrapping" yourself in big BCD with a lot of pockets.

That's not to say pockets are bad. I use glue on pockets on my wetsuit and drysuit, but even then they are mostly for things I don't plan on using much - backup mask, extra spools, cut dive dive tables, wetnotes, what have you. You can also buy scuba shorts with generous pockets to wear over your wetsuit. Point is that if you do need pockets, I'd still rather have them somewhere other than my harness.

In this regard, while we have three Stilettos in the family and I like them very much, they suffer from the same limitation as most conventional BCDs -- it is hard to modify them if you don't like them exactly the way they come. Yes, you can do some things, but it is a source of endless frustration to me that I can't add REAL stainless d-rings to the shoulders -- or the belt, unless I want to cut off the ends of the webbing and get rid of the fastex clip. Plastic d-rings are ok, at most, for a light or something, but not if you want to sling a pony bottle.

Bottom line for me, I think, is that Zeagle makes very nice BCDs. They are great for recreational diving, which is what BCDs are for after all, and you've gotten good advice on the various models. If, however, you think you might progress to technical diving, or adopt tech-style rigging, you will run into limitations very quickly. OP's first post emphasized the ability to grow with his diving, so there it is.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

Yes.

That's not to say pockets are bad. I use glue on pockets on my wetsuit and drysuit, but even then they are mostly for things I don't plan on using much - backup mask, extra spools, cut dive dive tables, wetnotes, what have you. You can also buy scuba shorts with generous pockets to wear over your wetsuit. Point is that if you do need pockets, I'd still rather have them somewhere other than my harness.

I agree on this: I really have learned to love drysuit pockets, and when I replace my wetsuits I'll put pockets on them as well. There really isn't a good place for pockets on my harness. They're there, but I end up putting stuff in them that's vaguely safety mandated but almost never used. E.g., a pocket mask where I'm more likely to use it for oxygen delivery on shore. (Or, at risk of getting flamed, a DSMB which is not used locally for several reasons.)

 

[AFdivedoc]

Zeagle has excellent products, and really great customer support last time I dealt with them. I own two Zeagle BCDs-- a Ranger with the original 44# wing, and a Tech with the original 65# wing replaced with a 35# Stiletto wing. Since I switched to BP/W several years ago, they get used a lot less these days. The Ranger is a very rugged BCD and has served me well. On the downside, it has too much wing for warm water diving, is bulky and has a lot of drag, and tends to be unstable. The Tech with the smaller wing is a much better option for general diving, warm water and travel, very comparable to the Stiletto, I think. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the "Brigade," which is a Ranger harness with the Stiletto wing sold by ScubaToys.com .

The ripcord weight release system is OK on both of these harnesses, but make sure you are familiar with how to rethread the system if it is deployed. There are outer pockets for those who like to store stuff in their BCD (I don't--I prefer thigh pockets these days).

Edit: I just went to the Zeagle site, and I guess they no longer sell the Tech BCD (which is altogether different from their Express Tech). It was the basis for their SAR and 911 public safety diver BCD systems (they still sell those).

 

[stash3630]

Spoke with Zeagle on the phone again today and it should be said, so far they've been great to deal with.

As I said earlier, the Covert XT is their most updated BCD and has a few different features than the original Covert; mainly the MOLLE attachment system. If you haven't seen it or their new product video for it, take a look. I linked it in my last post on page 2. I'd be curious of y'all's thoughts on the updates to it. Mainly whether you felt those updates were intriguing, complicating or just aesthetic.

There are no pockets on the Covert XT. As I expected, what I thought might be pockets is just the integrated weight system. Instead you just have the 4 plastic D-Rings and the MOLLE attachment system for accessorizing and storage. So in sacrificing pockets and metal D-Rings you're getting a ton of MOLLE webbing to clip things onto (or to attach a MOLLE compatible removable pocket) and the 4 plastic D-Rings. As of right now, Zeagle only carries one MOLLE specific removable pocket; a spare mask pocket.

All things considered, I think I'm going to move forward with a purchase of this Covert XT. According to Zeagle this is their most streamlined bcd, nudging the Stilleto out with a lower weight and a more streamlined profile. As far as I can tell, the big difference between the Stilleto and the Covert XT is: The Stilleto has pockets and 24lb integrated weight capacity while the Covert XT has 16lb weight capacity, no pockets and is more streamlined and more travel friendly.

I can see the advantage of the bp/w route and I really do appreciate the introduction you've all given me to it, but I think for my first setup that's a pretty big rabbit hole for me to go down. I feel like the Covert XT with its lightweight and MOLLE attachments is going to come as close to a bp/w for me without completely going there. I anticipate going the bp/w route eventually as my diving experience grows based just on how much you all tout its greatness, but the sort of all in one approach the Covert XT is offering is very appealing to me as a novice.

Based on the above, do you all feel like this is a good decision based on good data or am I making a rookie mistake and missing something. Thanks again in advance. You've all been so great, super helpful and very informative.

 

[Blasto]

The more I dive, the less desire I have for pockets on my harness. That's one of those things that seems important in the abstract, but really isn't.
I think you will really find that having an "open" feel on your sides and chest is a great thing compared to "wrapping" yourself in big BCD with a lot of pockets.

True - I've actually been shedding parts as my diving developed. The last to go was the second camband for single tank. But getting rid of the weight pockets pretty much requires a steel tank.

I can see the advantage of the bp/w route and I really do appreciate the introduction you've all given me to it, but I think for my first setup that's a pretty big rabbit hole for me to go down. I feel like the Covert XT with its lightweight and MOLLE attachments is going to come as close to a bp/w for me without completely going there.

One thing I can say is I've never met a rec diver who regretted going that route. A few who regretted getting too large a wing, one or two too pricey a brand, but not the configuration (few go 100% sidemount so soon as to have never needed a backmount BC). So it's a pretty safe hole to go down.

With the Zeagle Covert XT, you won't be making a blunder either, though. It's a good make and the BC is a reasonable model with only a little excess. I would advise against investing too much into customizing it, though; unlike 2" harness accessories, which are universally compatible, the MOLLE system isn't a standard in diving.

 

[snowdog61]

So for pockets - I had the GF (now wife) eliminate the Zena just because of the lack of pockets. I really wanted her out of the poodle jacket BCD and I eventually found her a LadyHawk (also back inflate) that had pockets she could live with. A BPW was a no-go for her so the back inflate was a move in the right direction. For me pockets aren't a big deal either way. Your situation may be different. I use the pocket(s) to store things I find on the bottom. I keep my torch contained in the other (it is clipped off to the hip d-ring so isn't going anywhere). I really should have the light clipped to the chest and restrained with a bungee/inner tube band but the strap doesn't really lend itself to that option though I probably could make it work. This again goes back to the BPW - d-rings can be moved, added, deleted to what ever is optimal.