Canon G10 - Patima or Ikelite?

[goneaway]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and pretty new to the UW-photoscene.

Normally, on land, I shoot with a Nikon D700. I decided to start with UW-photo also, checked housing prices for dSLR's, choked.
So I bought a G10 as compliment to my dSLR and as a first buildingblock for my UW set.

Now I've come to sort of a crossroads,
I either go for the Patima or the Ikelite housing. But I need some help deciding.
So far I've guessed my way into the following,
Ikelite set with housing, DS-160 and WD-4 gives me a solid start with decent but not amazing wideangle and TTL strobe.

Patima brings a sturdy and awsomelooking housing, though I'm having trouble finding a wideangle lens that allows for wetmounting. And also there seems to be some issues on getting TTL with strobes.

Cost is ofcourse a factor, but I'd rather have a good working setup than a cheap not so brilliant setup.

Any and all input is appreciated.

 

[Maddog59]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and pretty new to the UW-photoscene.

Normally, on land, I shoot with a Nikon D700. I decided to start with UW-photo also, checked housing prices for dSLR's, choked.
So I bought a G10 as compliment to my dSLR and as a first buildingblock for my UW set.

Now I've come to sort of a crossroads,
I either go for the Patima or the Ikelite housing. But I need some help deciding.
So far I've guessed my way into the following,
Ikelite set with housing, DS-160 and WD-4 gives me a solid start with decent but not amazing wideangle and TTL strobe.

Patima brings a sturdy and awsomelooking housing, though I'm having trouble finding a wideangle lens that allows for wetmounting. And also there seems to be some issues on getting TTL with strobes.

Cost is ofcourse a factor, but I'd rather have a good working setup than a cheap not so brilliant setup.

Any and all input is appreciated.

Hi goneaway,

I've been using the Patima housing with 2 x Inon Z240/4 strobes that are connected via sync cable for a while now and I'll give you my thoughts on them.
I've been building camera housings commercially for over twenty five years now and I have to say that IMHO the Patima is one of the most professional housings I have ever used. The build quality is astounding and the level of finish is right up there with the best on the market. All controls are available on the exterior of the unit and are readilly accessable.The housing comes complete with all you need to get it in the water and has a choice of using fibre optic flash (for true TTL) or sync cable connection if your old fashioned like me and want to have creative control over the whole setup. If you continue to read these forums you will find that most of the photographers are using the Canon and Ikelite housings for this camera and I beleive this is because of the cost involved. Like you I have a DSLR (D300s)and many lenses for topside use but as I travel a lot the weight and bulk of toteing a system around is a huge consideration for me! I bought my housing and flashes through Divervision in Taiwan and paid US$1045 for the housing I found Sam to be incredibly helpful and after an iniatial hiccough due to Patima having no stock the unit was delivered as ordered with all parts. (My suggestion to anyone using divervision is to email and enquire about availabilty before placing your order.)
I have 2 x Z240/4 flash units for this system and I am using the Sea & Sea dual sync cable (as a back up I also carry a couple of fibre optic cables just in case).
These flashes allow me to cover the full gamit of macro photography to Wide Angle if needed. Using the sync cable turns the flash on the camera off and I turn the flashes to auto and set an f stop on the flash to match the Fstop of the camera, the camera and flashes do the rest and as it is digital I can bracket up or down using the power settings on the flash units.
Divervision does the units with the fantasea arm system for US$699 per unit and I made my own base plate to suit.
As for W/angle Reef Photo (it's not on there web sitye yet)are making a Wet lens with 67mm thread that is 105 degrees (the same as the old Nikonos 15mm lens) across the corners and is pin sharp across the range. I also made an Optical dome port assembly myself and use it with the camera set at 28mm for most of my Semi Wide stuff.

I hope this has been of some help if you need any more info you can PM me or just leave a post.


Maddog59


Canon G10, Patima Housing, 2 x Inon Z240/4 Strobes hard wired (because I'm old fashioned) and my own Dome port .

 

[goneaway]

Thank you Maddog.

I think I've past through every site on internet the past 24 hours searching for just the lens you are talking about. I've also been playing mail-tag with Ryan on Reef Photo since I'm battling the timedifference between Sweden and Florida He mentioned this in his last mail to me and I will probably be taking this route. Considering the test photos this is as he so eloquently put it "a no brainer" in comparison with options like Ikelite and WD-4.

I will most likely be heading for Patima housing, mentioned lens, double arms but only one strobe. Double arms for further expansion with extra strobe. I'm unsure about the strobe though.

I've been glancing at S&S Y110a, but I'm totally lost on strobes. Not sure if I'll be using optics or synccable either. But as I see it, this is the only item where I can cut costs slightly.
So any tips on this is warmly accepted. Looked at the Inon Z240, but at 649 euro its a bit steep for starting. Is Inon preffered brand over say S&S or Ikelite?

 

[Maddog59]

The S&S Y110a is a very popular flash these days and a couple of people I know use them and are more than happy with them. The main reason I went with the Inons was output Vs Cost and Output won. The Inon is a full stop more powerful than the S&S and as such was a no brainer for me. Also as I do intend to house the D300s at some stage I thought they would be a better match for that housing as well. The size and weight of the Inons is impressive for a flash with such a big light output. Be aware if you use the Inon strobes you will need to use low discharge batteries for it (eneloop or the like) but I get about 300 full power flashes with a 1.5 sec recycle time from mine! You can also look at the Inon D2000 and S2000 strobes

http://www.digitaldiver.net/images/strobearticle/strobearticlescrn2.pdf

Reef Photo & Video Support Center - KnowledgeBase - Selecting the proper settings for INON strobes

DiverVision.com: Online Shopping for Underwater Housings, Strobes, Lenses, Computers & more

http://www.digitaldiver.net/strobes.php

Have a look at these sites as well you may pick up a few tip and hints to make your choice easier


Maddog59

 

[PNG Diver]

Thanks Maddog and Goneaway for this very helpful thread. I live in Papua New Guinea where there are no local dealers who can give me this sort of information. I have some more questions about the Patima G10 housing.

1) Does the longer port (the “standard” port for macro/telephoto shots) have a 67mm thread on it? (or any other kind of thread?) I read one post that implied that their G9 housing had a 67mm thread on both ports but the G10 housing was lacking the 67mm thread on it’s longer port. If there is no thread on the longer port, then how do you attach wet mount macro lenses to it?

2) I read a post which said that there was no vignetting in water OR AIR at any of the G10s zoom lengths with the long port on the Patima Housing. Does this mean that a Fantasea Bigeye dome could work well with the long port - and allow you to zoom out a bit wider on the same dive as a macro dive. You would need a 67mm thread to attach their 67mm Bigeye dome. From their specs, it looks to be about the same size as the Ikelite WD4 dome so I’m guessing it might work if there was any way to attach it. The new lens from Reef sounds great but I am also looking for something that I can use with the long port and take with me on a macro dive - even if it doesn’t get quite as much of a wide angle.

3) I am planning to get Inon Z240 strobes and use them via fiberoptic cables. But I would like to keep the option open of hard-wired strobes if I can’t get reliable results with the fiberoptics. I noticed that there are two different bulkhead options with the Patima housing (6-Pin or Nikonons 5-Pin). I understand that I will need an adaptor (e.g from Heinrich) for TTL. Am I correct in thinking that I would need to get the 6-pin bulkhead rather than the 5-Pin one if I want TTL?

4) I also read posts which suggested that Reef were “contemplating” making a WA lens for use with the Ikelite G10 housing, and also a 67mm adaptor which would allow you to attach wet mount macro lenses to the Ikelite G10 housing. Goneaway - did they mention either of these to you in any of your correspondence with them?

After far too many hours of trying to sort all of this out on the internet, I would be very grateful if somebody can answer some of these questions.

Rob

 

[goneaway]

1) Don't know. I didn't really look into that, partly because I was a bit consumed about sorting the WA problem and partly because I really never considered needing a macrolens. I would assume that there is a 67mm thread but I can't say for sure.

2) No answer from me here. I'll stick with the Reef lens and hope that it covers as much as possible of my need and if not I will have to add on more gear later.

3) Do you really have to choose between 5- or 6-pin? I was under the impression that they are interchangeable. I might be wrong on this one though.

4) I would assume that the lens for Ikelite could be in the works after the release of the lens for Patima. Although considering Ryans statement of Patima beeing a nobrainer with this new lens in comparison to Ikelite and WD-4, I would think that the Ikelite option has not been pursued as of yet.

This is still only me guessing much of this PNG Diver. I'm originally a landbased photographer and Im trying to keep the costs down, not to mention the weight since I'll be hauling 2 sets of gear for 9 months. So you might be better of listening to someone more experienced about the thread and macrolenses.

 

[PNG Diver]

Thanks Goneaway

I know you have already bought your G10 but the cost of a Patima housing might be more than the cost of an S90 in the Ikelite housing.

I don’t want to wander off the topic but if you aren’t too interested in macro then it is my (complete beginner’s) understanding that the new Canon S90 in its’ new Ikelite housing is a much better choice than the G10 or G11. It is smaller and cheaper with a lens that is one stop faster and has the same (less noisy) sensor as the G11. But the most important thing is that if you decide to take your WA lens off underwater, you will still be able to zoom all the way up to 105mm. And also, you might have more WA lens options - including wider options. See the current thread about this camera and housing combination. With the same WA lens on the short port of the Patima G10 housing, you would be stuck at 28mm and won't be able to zoom at all, even if you take the lens off. It is also my impression that being able to zoom to 140mm with the G10 or G11 (versus 105mm with the S90) is mostly only advantageous underwater for macro shots.

I think I am more interested in macro and am leaning towards a G11 in its’ cheap Canon housing. I could get a Reefnet Subsee adaptor for macro lenses. And if I really want to do WA shots, I could consider a second camera/ housing - such as an S90. But by the time I start thinking about that, the options will have all changed dramatically because there will be housings for micro four-thirds cameras.

I’ll wait till I get some answers to my questions above. I could email the distributors but I’m trying to avoid bothering them with private emails. It’s much better for them if the questions can be answered on public forums so that they don’t have to keep answering the same questions.

Regards

Rob

 

[goneaway]

Thanks Goneaway

I know you have already bought your G10 but the cost of a Patima housing might be more than the cost of an S90 in the Ikelite housing.

I don’t want to wander off the topic but if you aren’t too interested in macro then it is my (complete beginner’s) understanding that the new Canon S90 in its’ new Ikelite housing is a much better choice than the G10 or G11. It is smaller and cheaper with a lens that is one stop faster and has the same (less noisy) sensor as the G11. But the most important thing is that if you decide to take your WA lens off underwater, you will still be able to zoom all the way up to 105mm. And also, you might have more WA lens options - including wider options. See the current thread about this camera and housing combination. With the same WA lens on the short port of the Patima G10 housing, you would be stuck at 28mm and won't be able to zoom at all, even if you take the lens off. It is also my impression that being able to zoom to 140mm with the G10 or G11 (versus 105mm with the S90) is mostly only advantageous underwater for macro shots.

I think I am more interested in macro and am leaning towards a G11 in its’ cheap Canon housing. I could get a Reefnet Subsee adaptor for macro lenses. And if I really want to do WA shots, I could consider a second camera/ housing - such as an S90. But by the time I start thinking about that, the options will have all changed dramatically because there will be housings for micro four-thirds cameras.

I’ll wait till I get some answers to my questions above. I could email the distributors but I’m trying to avoid bothering them with private emails. It’s much better for them if the questions can be answered on public forums so that they don’t have to keep answering the same questions.

Regards

Rob

First off regarding the threading, this according to digifish.net:
"The housing comes with two ports: an exclusive wide angle port which allows for attaching an optional 67mm threaded wide conversion lens and a basic port that can also be used to attach a 67mm threaded close-up lens. The lens of the camera must be fixed to maximum when using the wide angle port, so it is not possible to vary the zoom."


As for the using of S90. On my own part that is not possible, I bought the G10 as a buildingblock for my UW set at first. Albeit I wasn't aware of the limitations compared to the G9. But, and this is the breaking point for me, as I'm shooting fullframe dSLR on land and was looking for a backup house I found the G10 to be a worthy compliment to the dSLR. So for that reason I'm keeping it.
It would be a logistical nightmare to go on 10 months of travel carrying dSLR, G10, S90 and UW housing. It's already borderline with all the lenses, batterys, memorycards and chargers.

And in the macro question.
It wasn't really about not beeing interested in macro. I just weighed the problem of WA as the biggest one, and beeing aware that I would loose ability to zoom I felt that with a really good wetmount WA, then I could go for macro by simply unmounting the WA lens and getting close with 28mm.

The capabilites of the G10 really allows for pretty nice macro even without zooming. Although it wouldn't be a disadvantage to be able to zoom I don't mind not beeing able to. I might go in with standardport and macro for 1 dive out 3 on a given day and thats good enough for me.

Anywho, I appreciate the input.
I'm still fumbling the dark about the strobes though. Btw, regarding the bulkhead you asked about PNG, as I understand from reading some more about it the housing comes with 5-pin nikonos standard and with option for 6-pin. But that would be if you want compability with EX580 and alike. So 5-pin with conv. is the way to go for TTL with Inon and others.

Safe dives!
Goneaway, Fredrik

 

[Maddog59]

Thanks Maddog and Goneaway for this very helpful thread. I live in Papua New Guinea where there are no local dealers who can give me this sort of information. I have some more questions about the Patima G10 housing.

1) Does the longer port (the “standard” port for macro/telephoto shots) have a 67mm thread on it? (or any other kind of thread?) I read one post that implied that their G9 housing had a 67mm thread on both ports but the G10 housing was lacking the 67mm thread on it’s longer port. If there is no thread on the longer port, then how do you attach wet mount macro lenses to it?

2) I read a post which said that there was no vignetting in water OR AIR at any of the G10s zoom lengths with the long port on the Patima Housing. Does this mean that a Fantasea Bigeye dome could work well with the long port - and allow you to zoom out a bit wider on the same dive as a macro dive. You would need a 67mm thread to attach their 67mm Bigeye dome. From their specs, it looks to be about the same size as the Ikelite WD4 dome so I’m guessing it might work if there was any way to attach it. The new lens from Reef sounds great but I am also looking for something that I can use with the long port and take with me on a macro dive - even if it doesn’t get quite as much of a wide angle.

3) I am planning to get Inon Z240 strobes and use them via fiberoptic cables. But I would like to keep the option open of hard-wired strobes if I can’t get reliable results with the fiberoptics. I noticed that there are two different bulkhead options with the Patima housing (6-Pin or Nikonons 5-Pin). I understand that I will need an adaptor (e.g from Heinrich) for TTL. Am I correct in thinking that I would need to get the 6-pin bulkhead rather than the 5-Pin one if I want TTL?

4) I also read posts which suggested that Reef were “contemplating” making a WA lens for use with the Ikelite G10 housing, and also a 67mm adaptor which would allow you to attach wet mount macro lenses to the Ikelite G10 housing. Goneaway - did they mention either of these to you in any of your correspondence with them?

After far too many hours of trying to sort all of this out on the internet, I would be very grateful if somebody can answer some of these questions.

Rob

Hey Guys,
Sorry to take so long to get back but have been out for a dive this morning and only just got finished (waste of time, the water was crap so I didn't take a photo.)

1. The long port has no thread on it and as such the is no easy way to fit wet lenses to it. Having said that though I find the macro function on the G10 to be more than adequate as I can get down to within about 1/2 an inch of the port in macro. The only problem than is getting the light in that close. (a problem I am working on at the moment)
The outside port dimension is 106.0mm dia and there may be some way to connect an adapter to it if you need.

2. The camera does not vignette on either port and the only reason I use the small port with its 67mm thread is if I'm going to shoot with the Wide Angle Wet Lens. I'm not a fan of ultra wide shooting so I find the Reef Photo Lens more than adequate for my needs. You can also shoot W/A macro off the camera with the short port. I also made myself an Optical Dome Port assembly to fit the housing and I use that a lot with just the 28mm lens of the camera. I can zoom through this port and also shoot macro and as such I tend to use this port a fair bit.

3. The 6 pin bulkhead fitting is a special from Patima to use only with their flash housings for the Canon Speed flashes. It allows them to give full TTL function through a special sync lead. I use the Z240's with a standard 5 pin Nikonos bulkhead fitting and a dual Sea & Sea sync lead and when I set the flash's to auto I can pick an F-Stop and Shutter Speed on the camera in manual and then match it with a F-Stop setting on the Flash units. I actually find this more usable than TTL as I can bracket the shots by changing the output on the flash. These Flash units are absolutely brillant for this. As I said in my first post I also carry a couple of fibre optic cables on trips just as backup if I flood a sync cable or something stupid like that.( I've never used them to date)

4. Don't Know

PNG Diver, I have been building housings for many years now and I understand how much time it can take to research a new camera system and as this was my first foray into Underwater digital stills photography I spent hundreds of hours looking at web sites and talking to people at trade shows and the like. I've never been a big fan of plastic housings and much prefer to build them myself if I can but this housing just blew me away when I saw how well it is made and thought out. The fellow who owns Patima has a company that manufatures for the aerospace industry and when the factory is quite they design and build camera systems so the expertise is first rate and shows thru in their product.




Maddog59:mooner:

 

[goneaway]

I noticed I put the wrong adress on the quote in my previous post. It's supposed to be digifish.nl.

Maddog, so the long port really has NO threading?

Check this link out for some misinformation:
digifish.nl/en/news0240.html

Forum won't let me post a link, just copy/paste.