Canon A610 with DS-125 and Manual Controller

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jduncan

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Location
Cape Cod Massachusetts
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200 - 499
After some research, I have ordered an Ikelite 3944.77 Ds-125 Strobe kit with the Manual controller for use with our A610 and Canon housing.

I'm curious to hear any tips, tricks or comments from user who may have this setup.

Anyone?

J
 
Been tagging along here and waiting...waiting...still waiting. I, too, recently purchased the same set-up for my Canon A620 and looking for any advice. I will visiting Curacao in 5 weeks...although I'm a noob at this UW photography thang, I will post any insights I return home with.
 
Underwater guide number for the DS 125 at ISO 100 is 32 (feet, measured underwater). If you set your camera's sensitivity to ISO to 50, the UW GN for the strobe at full dump ( no diffuser) becomes 22. In reality the strobe's output remains the same, but the camera sensor's need for light doubles when you go from ISO 100 to ISO 50. Still I'd suggest you give ISO 50 a try.

If you set your camera to ISO 50, the manual controller to F (full) and your aperture to f/5.6, then you will be set to capture an image with a strobe to subject distance of approximately 4 feet.

GN=A*D
Guide Number equals Aperture times Distance
22=f/5.6*4

If your target is three feet away and the aperture and ISO remains the same, then turn the manual controller two more clicks clockwise to the number 1 on the controller. That represents -1 stop of light emanating from the strobe, in essence reducing the strobe's output to half power. If your target is two feet away, then choose number 2 (one quarter power). One foot away, set the controller to 3 (1/8th power).

In other words, for every foot closer to your target from four feet away, turn the manual controller two clicks clockwise. There are also half steps (single click) available on the manual controller for fine tuning.

When using the manual controller, the DS 125 should be set to TTL. For manual controller settings, follow this link:

http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/mansenswitch.html

Sorry I can't help you with specific camera settings. However I do recommend that you shoot in manual mode and pre set the ISO to 50 or 100 (never set the ISO to auto). If you prefer to go with ISO 100, choose an aperture setting of f/8 for the above example. In general, f/8 may give you slightly more depth of field, but f/5.6 will give you a sharper image (see Wrotniak for an explanation). The lower the ISO setting will usually result in less grainy images.

If you wish to shoot with the diffuser installed, sensitivity setting of ISO 50, then use an aperture of f/4 for the manual controller example above. This set of settings may actually be ideal. With the diffuser installed, the DS 125 will lose another stop of light. But it is a powerful strobe to begin with so this loss will not be an issue for most compositions. The light emanating from the strobe will now be softer and spread even further (beam angle of @ 100&#176:wink:.

The new guide number for the DS 125 in this configuration will now be 16 (ISO 50, measured in feet). The new formula will look like this:

GN=A*D
Guide Number equals Aperture times Distance
16=f/4*4

To review, DS 125 guide number 16 when ISO is set to 50 and the diffuser is installed. By choosing an aperture of f/4 and a strobe to subject distance of 4 feet, you should have pretty close to an acceptably exposed foreground when the manual controller is set to F (full). If you get closer to your target and the strobe to subject distance is now 3 feet, just turn the manual controller two clicks clockwise from full to the number 1. And for every foot closer, two more clicks on the controller.

Shutter Speed:

I'd start with a shutter speed in the vicinity of 1/100 sec with an aperture of f/4 (ISO 50) although this is very arbitrary (ultimately depends on water clarity, ambient light, goals, etc). If the resulting background is overexposed, increase the shutter speed to darken. If the background is underexposed for your taste (too dark), slow down the shutter to allow more ambient light to pass through the lens. To avoid motion blur (unless your buoyancy skills are top notch), try to keep the speed faster than 1/60 sec.

hth,
b.
 
bobf, awesome post for those of us struggling with manual exposure. Would you mind quickly pointing out differences for DS-50 (with and without diffuser) vs. DS-125?

Thanks.
 
thanks lairdb........

me? quickly point something out? huh? :)

First I'd like to mention that imho, the DS 50 does not get the respect it deserves. I think this is at least in part due to it's name. If Ike had named the strobe the Galaxie 500 Stun Gun or the DS 5600 Stargazer or any other Madison Avenue type splashy moniker, I think some would actually take the powerful strobe more seriously.

But since the DS 50 presently competes with other "flashier" named flash guns with higher numerical name tags, some I believe assume it is not as powerful. Some of the DS 50's competitors named their strobes after their top side (metric) guide number rating (typically a number 2x or more than underwater rating would be). Another strobe company placed an extra zero (or two!) after it's topside metric GN. And while other strobe manufacturers prefer to name their strobes after the Greek Alphabet, Ikelite chose to name their strobes after the amount of energy the capacitors within each strobe could hold.* btw, just in case anyone misreads my comments, I'm not talking about the quality of any of these other strobes, only their names. imho, most if not all of these other strobes are very well made. So much so that I don't think those strobes have to hide behind the sexier monikers their marketing departments branded them with.

So the reason the DS 50 got it's name is due to the watt-second energy rating of the strobe (the DS I believe stands for digital substrobe). The strobe's capacitor is capable of storing 50 watt seconds of energy. It uses that energy to spread a beam of light, measured around 70° (more with a diffuser), with an underwater guide number rating of 28 (ft. ISO 100).

I'd like to compare the major difference between the DS 50 and the DS 125 for a moment. As you can see, the Underwater Guide Number Ratings are very similar. The DS 50 at 28, and the DS 125 at 32. Relatively speaking, close, somewhere around a 1/3 of a stop of light. The major difference however is that the DS 125 spreads it's light over a much greater area, around 100°. The DS 125 must create and store, and eventually emit more that twice the energy (measured in watt seconds) to achieve this. And that is why the DS 125 is physically larger than the DS 50. It must be in order to accomplish this goal.

To simplify, if you consider the DS 50 a spot light and the DS 125 a flood light, that may help to explain the main difference. And as you can see, the Guide Number Rating of a strobe does not tell the whole story. The energy rating, once again measured in watt-seconds, is also considered an important consideration by many.

The DS 50 is designed to illuminate the field of view of your typical point and shoot camera. So if your camera lens zooms from roughly 28° to 105°, the DS 50 will be a good match. If you wish some day to add a wide angle conversion lens to your rig, a second DS 50 or a DS 125 would be two options to consider (although I've seen pool tests where the DS 50 successfully covered the field of view of a WAL).

Now to answer your question, laridb :)

The DS 50 as mentioned has an uw gn of 28. The standard Ikelite diffuser reduces the intensity by one stop of light (in essence, reduces the output influence by one half). To determine the new guide number of a DS 50 with a diffuser installed we divide by 1.4 (for an excellent explanation, I recommend Dave Read). 28/1.4=20. The new guide number will be 20. So if you are using the manual controller to limit the DS 50 output and you set the controller to F (full), the gn of the strobe with the diffuser installed will be 20 (ISO 100, ft). If you prefer to set your digicam to ISO 50, then your new guide number, still with the diffuser installed, will be (20/1.4=14.29) rounded off to 14 (once again if you would like to know why I divided by 1.4, please google Dave Read).

From here we can again visit the guide number formula to determine aperture and distance combinations.

GN=A*D
the Guide number should equal the aperture (f/stop) multiplied by the distance from strobe to subject
14=f/4*3.5

An aperture of f/4 and a distance of 3 and one half feet (strobe to subject) should result in a properly exposed foreground when the manual controller is set to F and the DS 50 has a diffuser installed and the ISO setting is 50.

One foot closer( 2.5 ft), two clicks clockwise on the man con (setting 1).
Another foot closer (1.5 ft), two more clicks (setting 2).
etc.........

Keep in mind that the Guide Number Formula is exactly that, a Guide. Prior to the digital age, photographers would bracket to insure the results they wished for. Today we have LCD screens to speed up the process and shorten the learning curve. Shoot, Review, Adjust, Shoot Again. Even the best subscribe to the mantra. And to borrow another saying, this one from Chrism, Shoot 'til your fingers bleed......

hth,
b

btw, I have no affiliation with Ikelite. Just a user of their products.

*DS 125 according to Ikelite actually is rated at 110 WS
 
Thank You! Received the goods last night and have printed this thread for reference. We are heading to Cozumel, Grand Cayman, and Costa Maya next week. Will share the results!

j
 
A question after reading. Why did you use 4 feet as a starting point? Is that just a decent distance for good exposure?

Also, is testing with objects on land at all accurate? My guess is no.

Thanks.
 
I wouldn't attempt to artificially illuminate a target underwater much further than five feet or so from strobe to subject. Beyond that distance it would most likely be better to shut the strobe off completely and capture the image solely with ambient light. I would always try to keep a minimum amount of water between the camera and the target. If possible, zoom with your fins first, camera second. I'm sure it was an exaggeration, but I was taught that if you can't touch it, don't shoot it.

The goal is to capture the artificial light emanating from the strobe before water begins to filter out the warmer colors such as reds and oranges. Even the strongest strobes I've been told cannot properly illuminate a subject much beyond 6 feet (2 meters). Also, the less water between the camera, strobe and subject, the less chance for capturing backscatter, those unwanted (captured out of focus) particles floating in the water column located between the lens and subject.

With a DS 125, diffuser installed, manual controller set to F, ISO 50 (configuration equals a GN of 16, measured in feet), strobe to subject distance 5 feet, the Aperture that would theoretically allow the correct amount of strobe light to pass through to the sensor in order to properly expose the foreground of the composition according to the Guide Number formula is:

GN=A*D
GN 16 =?(A) times 5(feet, the distance between strobe and subject)
We must determine what number times 5 will equal 16
?(A)=3.2
answer is 3.2 or specifically, an Aperture of 3.2 (written f/3.2)

If your camera does not have an aperture setting of f/3.2 then select the closest one available for a starting point (I'd always lean towards the side of underexposing if necessary).

Once again, if you then decide to move one foot closer to your target, just turn the manual controller clockwise for two clicks. The arrow on the dial will then be aimed at the number 1. Since you have moved a foot closer to the target, less light will be necessary to expose the foreground. By turning the man con two clicks clockwise, you have reduced the output of the strobe by one f/stop. Repeat (turn 2 clicks clockwise) for every foot closer.

Cliff Notes:

aperture ~ distance ~ manual controller setting

f/3.2 five feet = F
f/3.2 four feet = 1
f/3.2 three feet = 2
f/3.2 two feet = 3
f/3.2 one foot = 4

btw, if you prefer an ISO setting of 100, then stop down the aperture by one f/stop. iow, f/4.5

Also, is testing with objects on land at all accurate? My guess is no.

Mine, too. The reason is that light reacts differently when it passes through air than when it passes through water. Water is much denser than air.

That said, it is always good to practice on land. Just keep in mind that the camera settings will be different once you enter the water. If you recall we have been discussing the underwater guide numbers for the DS 125 and DS 50. Their top side GN's are much higher (64 and 56 respectively according to Ike, ISO 100, measured in feet).

For an explanation of how to determine guide numbers, you may visit the strobe finder:
http://www.digitaldiver.net/strobes.php
Select a strobe (or strobes) from the list. Click the Compare Selected Tab at the bottom of the page. Once the next page loads, click on the Guide Number link found in the column on the left.

hth,
b
 
Ok, so the results are in. They are mixed. The first shot I took with manual mode on the camera was totally dark. Not knowing any better I figured the settings were wrong. So I changed modes - out of manual, and into manual aperture (which makes shutter speed auto) and I got over exposed. I tried manual shutter speed (auto aperture) same crap. So I pretty much stuck with those two modes and some came out and most didn't. On the last of six dives I discovered that the strobe was not firing. When I got back to the ship I tried it and it worked fine. When I got home I tried again and nothing. Strobe not firing.

So, I played around a bit and discovered..... (any guesses??)

In Manual mode, the A610 has no preflash! I had set my manual controller to preflash mode (because thats what I read). AHH!

I also lost the silly diffuser. Terrible design that is. I have asked Ikelite for a new one and conveyed my thoughts on the design!

So, while trying different modes during the dive, and the strobe not firing in manual mode, the correct f/4 1/100 settings recommended here wouldn't work. The other modes I tried which DID fire the strobe had eother the arperture or f/stop in auto. ERR.

So, now I know what I did wrong. I have now changed the controller to "no preflash" and will only use manual mode on the camera. I still got some decent shots, and I am looking forward to getting the camera back in the water for 7 days of diving Cayman Brac in March.

If you want to see any of the photos that at least are somewhat decent, check here...

http://photos.fishoutercape.com/gallery/album73
 

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