Canadian woman lost - Puerto Vallarta. Mexico

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Hopefully someone in the group will push PADI for details. Not sure why they would want to withhold safety information that could help prevent injury or death for their members.
 
I am Gloria Miller’s husband. It has been just over 10 months since we lost our Sunshine Little GI am not a diver and never will be. PADI and DAN have all the information needed to answer every question posed on this thread. The Dive Master provided his report to PADI. Using information gathered while searching for my wife as well as providing our sons recollection of events to experienced Dive Experts I provided a report to PADI and DAN pointing out what we believe could have been done differently to prevent this tragic incident and just as importantly hopefully prevent a reoccurrence.

I am very surprised that PADI does not do some sort of follow up Incident Safety bulletins for its membership. We have given PADI and DAN full permission to use our report and information in any manner they wish to promote safety.

I have no intention of posting our report or getting into a discussion about the incident on this board. I hope you can understand why it would cause me and my family personal trauma to do so. I would encourage members or leaders in your group to contact PADI to acquire the information so you can use it for the benefit of all.

Sincerely

David Chambers
Vernon, BC
Please accept my heartfelt condolences on the loss of your wife.
Craig
 
This has been bugging me and I need closer. I have researched G's incident and reviewed with many experienced divers. In particular a member of the Canadian Armed Forces who is involved in search and rescue (SAR) and does incident reviews for them. G's loss was not an accident it was an incident. Incident meaning there were many choices that could have been made that would have resulted in her being with us today. I qualify I am not a diver however experienced in above water ocean activities. I will try to be as brief as possible:

1. Training in Vernon, BC was suspect. Instructor was impatient with her bouncy difficulties and shortened and rushed her final dive. In retrospect he should not have passed her. My research shows that 60% of dive fatalities start with a bouncy issue. Bouncy proficiency should be a priority before passing a student.

2. A number of people have commented "why didn't they do a private dive instead of a group dive?" I requested that from Ceaser the owner and Dive Master in PV when booking the trip. I told him G was nervous and inexperienced. Told him money was no object and I would pay for a private beach dive for her to build confidence. He said he would evaluate their ability when they got to Puerto Vallarta and go from there. In retrospect it was his busiest time of year with a small dive shop and the reality is he did not have the time to take G and Noah on a private dive with all his repeat customers in town and looking for adventurous dives.

3. A few have asked "where was the boat?" In PV it is standard practice for one boat to be servicing multiple dive teams. Bottom line is the boat was elsewhere. If the dive boat was with one team G would likely be alive.

4. With regards to G's partner. Contrary to Caesar's Padi report and description to dive friends, Caesar picked G as his dive partner. My expert search and rescue (sar) military friend has described this as a bad choice. There were very, very experienced divers in the group and he feels Caesar should have taken one of them as his partner as his attention would be distracted being the leader of the group. If G had another partner in the group she would likely be alive.

5. As G's partner Caesar did not notice G having bouncy issues about 30 minutes into the dive. Our son Noah did and went back to recover her and brought her to Caesar. We have this on Noah's GoPro.

6. Caesar held her and tried to manipulate her bcd. He then let her go and she shot to the surface from 65 feet. My expert described this as a important choice as he should have held her and not allowed her to go anywhere without him. If he held her she would likely be alive.

7. Caesar then turned to the group and instructed them to continue their dive. This my experts say was the critical mistake in the order of events. The dive they say should have ended for all and everyone return to the surface. If that happened G would likely be alive.

8. Caesar proceeded to the surface to check on G. He took his required stops on the way up. My adviser an experienced Navy Seal type said that although that was protocol he would have headed to the surface quicker as his risk would be low.

9. Caesar describes that once on the surface he saw G 60 meters away. This means the surface current had moved her at 30 meters per minute. He described he did the fist on the top of the head signal to see if she was ok. She responded with fist on top of her head. He says he yelled at her to stay where she was and he was going back down to get the others. My expert says this is filled with issues. It is very unlikely that from almost 200 feet neck deep in the ocean she understood him. The expert describes he should have realized how far she has drifted and considered her situation and swam to her to make sure she was ok. At the very least he said he should have released his emergency buoy to attract the dive boat or others.

10. Caesar headed back down to the ocean floor to try and find the others. They surfaced 10 minutes later and Caesar released his emergency buoy which attracted the dive boat. He asked if the boat operator had he seen G and he said he had not.

11. The search for G began. The Mexican Navy and Civil Defense (our version of SAR) became involved and were professional but under equipped. Caesar's dive shop had to provide tanks and equipment to the navy divers as they had none. There were no SAR helicopters or planes to assist.

12. We will never know what happened to G however speculate on a few scenarios. One she misunderstood Caesar and went back down and got in trouble. Two she did have some sort of mental issue from the rapid assent and disorientation and lost control of her dive. Or three the most likely is she drifted another 200 meter into one of the Los Arkos Islands and was slammed against it with the swell. The islands are negative slope and offer no ability to climb up on shore.

13. It should be noted that we believe G was negative weighted to help with her bouncy issues. She only weighed 105 lbs and dive shops will do this to help. Although not against the rules it is a risky choice and not recommended.

My research shows 200 divers a year die in the US alone and I can only imagine the number world wide. I am amazed that PADI does not do a better job of researching and providing incident reports to its members to help with the risk. Actually better job is an understatement the literally do sfa. They are an advertising and licensing association only and you should not rely on them taking care of your safety.

I am not an expert and am not able to debate or analyse what I have presented. I provide it mostly to create closure for me and Noah. In my business we would not leave any safety incident unreported and without recommendations for change. I hope providing what we have will help keep someone in the future alive.

We miss our Sunshine Little G every moment of every day:-(

David
 
This has been bugging me and I need closer. I have researched G's incident and reviewed with many experienced divers. In particular a member of the Canadian Armed Forces who is involved in search and rescue (SAR) and does incident reviews for them. G's loss was not an accident it was an incident. Incident meaning there were many choices that could have been made that would have resulted in her being with us today. I qualify I am not a diver however experienced in above water ocean activities. I will try to be as brief as possible:

1. Training in Vernon, BC was suspect. Instructor was impatient with her bouncy difficulties and shortened and rushed her final dive. In retrospect he should not have passed her. My research shows that 60% of dive fatalities start with a bouncy issue. Bouncy proficiency should be a priority before passing a student.

2. A number of people have commented "why didn't they do a private dive instead of a group dive?" I requested that from Ceaser the owner and Dive Master in PV when booking the trip. I told him G was nervous and inexperienced. Told him money was no object and I would pay for a private beach dive for her to build confidence. He said he would evaluate their ability when they got to Puerto Vallarta and go from there. In retrospect it was his busiest time of year with a small dive shop and the reality is he did not have the time to take G and Noah on a private dive with all his repeat customers in town and looking for adventurous dives.

3. A few have asked "where was the boat?" In PV it is standard practice for one boat to be servicing multiple dive teams. Bottom line is the boat was elsewhere. If the dive boat was with one team G would likely be alive.

4. With regards to G's partner. Contrary to Caesar's Padi report and description to dive friends, Caesar picked G as his dive partner. My expert search and rescue (sar) military friend has described this as a bad choice. There were very, very experienced divers in the group and he feels Caesar should have taken one of them as his partner as his attention would be distracted being the leader of the group. If G had another partner in the group she would likely be alive.

5. As G's partner Caesar did not notice G having bouncy issues about 30 minutes into the dive. Our son Noah did and went back to recover her and brought her to Caesar. We have this on Noah's GoPro.

6. Caesar held her and tried to manipulate her bcd. He then let her go and she shot to the surface from 65 feet. My expert described this as a important choice as he should have held her and not allowed her to go anywhere without him. If he held her she would likely be alive.

7. Caesar then turned to the group and instructed them to continue their dive. This my experts say was the critical mistake in the order of events. The dive they say should have ended for all and everyone return to the surface. If that happened G would likely be alive.

8. Caesar proceeded to the surface to check on G. He took his required stops on the way up. My adviser an experienced Navy Seal type said that although that was protocol he would have headed to the surface quicker as his risk would be low.

9. Caesar describes that once on the surface he saw G 60 meters away. This means the surface current had moved her at 30 meters per minute. He described he did the fist on the top of the head signal to see if she was ok. She responded with fist on top of her head. He says he yelled at her to stay where she was and he was going back down to get the others. My expert says this is filled with issues. It is very unlikely that from almost 200 feet neck deep in the ocean she understood him. The expert describes he should have realized how far she has drifted and considered her situation and swam to her to make sure she was ok. At the very least he said he should have released his emergency buoy to attract the dive boat or others.

10. Caesar headed back down to the ocean floor to try and find the others. They surfaced 10 minutes later and Caesar released his emergency buoy which attracted the dive boat. He asked if the boat operator had he seen G and he said he had not.

11. The search for G began. The Mexican Navy and Civil Defense (our version of SAR) became involved and were professional but under equipped. Caesar's dive shop had to provide tanks and equipment to the navy divers as they had none. There were no SAR helicopters or planes to assist.

12. We will never know what happened to G however speculate on a few scenarios. One she misunderstood Caesar and went back down and got in trouble. Two she did have some sort of mental issue from the rapid assent and disorientation and lost control of her dive. Or three the most likely is she drifted another 200 meter into one of the Los Arkos Islands and was slammed against it with the swell. The islands are negative slope and offer no ability to climb up on shore.

13. It should be noted that we believe G was negative weighted to help with her bouncy issues. She only weighed 105 lbs and dive shops will do this to help. Although not against the rules it is a risky choice and not recommended.

My research shows 200 divers a year die in the US alone and I can only imagine the number world wide. I am amazed that PADI does not do a better job of researching and providing incident reports to its members to help with the risk. Actually better job is an understatement the literally do sfa. They are an advertising and licensing association only and you should not rely on them taking care of your safety.

I am not an expert and am not able to debate or analyse what I have presented. I provide it mostly to create closure for me and Noah. In my business we would not leave any safety incident unreported and without recommendations for change. I hope providing what we have will help keep someone in the future alive.

We miss our Sunshine Little G every moment of every day:-(

David

Oh David, my heart breaks for you and Noah.

Your friends have advised you well. It is doubtful that anyone here will be able to give you a better answer. For what it's worth, I think she might have gone back down.

You say she was trained in Kalamalka? Sadly, it does sound like she received inadequate training or that the instructor was not the right instructor for her.

Had Gloria had any other ocean dives before the dive we are discussing here?

If not, another factor is that lake diving and ocean diving are not as similar as one would think. Do you know what she was wearing in the way of a wetsuit?

There will be others along to have a say. Hopefully, it will be cathartic even though someone might say something that feels hurtful, they don't mean it that way.

We are angry too. Yes, she should be with you today.
 
@My Sunshine, I am so sorry for your loss. I couldn't agree more with your post. It has been my opinion for quite sometime that dive training is lacking from the top down. Your sad story is more harsh evidence of the truth of that IMO.

@MYSunshine posted: Hopefully someone in the group will push PADI for details. Not sure why they would want to withhold safety information that could help prevent injury or death for their members.

Let me take a crack as to why PADI hasn't released the information you cite, CYA, IMO.
I fear the only way it will be known is thru you.
 
Also, have you had any news that any of the practices of Caesar's shop have changed since the incident?
 
@My Sunshine I know that must have been one of the hardest things for you to write and post. I will not ask you any questions just wish you the best and thank you for providing information in spite of your pain that could save another family the hell your family is suffering. :flowers::cuddles::flowers:
 
What would you do if you were in my shoes?
Learn to shoot a sausage from depth. AS SOON AS you are separated from the group: shoot the bag.
 
David, I certainly want to thank you for sharing your findings with us, and I join many here in being saddened by your loss.
I requested that from Ceaser the owner and Dive Master in PV when booking the trip. I told him G was nervous and inexperienced. Told him money was no object and I would pay for a private beach dive for her to build confidence.
That was certainly the wise action to take. I just finished a week of diving off of Cozumel island, several days we had newbies onboard - and we had extra DMs as well.

In retrospect it was his busiest time of year with a small dive shop and the reality is he did not have the time to take G and Noah on a private dive with all his repeat customers in town and looking for adventurous dives.
And that was an unfortunate turn of events.

A few have asked "where was the boat?" In PV it is standard practice for one boat to be servicing multiple dive teams. Bottom line is the boat was elsewhere.
Oh really! That's asking for trouble. In Cozumel waters, I expect the boat to follow us unless it has to leave to tend to an emergency.

With regards to G's partner. Contrary to Caesar's Padi report and description to dive friends, Caesar picked G as his dive partner. My expert search and rescue (sar) military friend has described this as a bad choice. There were very, very experienced divers in the group and he feels Caesar should have taken one of them as his partner as his attention would be distracted being the leader of the group. If G had another partner in the group she would likely be alive.
Not knowing the other divers onboard, I could only guess if they'd be willing to partner with her. Having her buddy with the DM leading the group is often suggested to solo travelers, but as you pointed out, it's a bad plan with a DM distracted.

Her uncontrolled ascent may have injured her at that point, and the DM should have skipped stops to be with her, then stayed with her until the boat arrived. The boat should have been called immediately, and she should have not been left alone. You are being much kinder to the DM than I would have.

Your criticisms of Padi and DAN are well deserved. Business and income are the driving factors with both.
 
Bouncy proficiency should be a priority before passing a student.
Oh my, yes. You're not really a diver until you get your buoyancy straight. It should be one of the first skills taught: not the last.
He took his required stops on the way up.
His stops were not "required", but precautionary. Problems, especially a distressed diver, dictates the elimination of these safety stops. Once on the surface his focus should have been on reaching and assisting the distressed diver and in doing an immediate neurological survey on her.

Thanks for the details. We seldom get such an inside look at what happened in these incidents. Lots of guessing but few real insights into what actually transpired. I'm sorry for your and Noah's loss and I hope that you have found some closure with this.
 
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