Canadian woman lost - Puerto Vallarta. Mexico

[leslieinpv]

Yes, I would be interested as well to see the outcome. Dive toad said he came up got her squared away, then went back to the others who were waiting. My question is did he put her in the boat or leave her on the surface. The captain did not see him come back, until he came back with the other divers. No one saw him come back with her, and no one saw him leave her on the boat. How long were the other divers underwater waiting for him to come back. Where did he leave her on the surface near the boat,in the boat, or just on the surface. Did she still have her gear on? Was her gear found in the boat? So many questions, just waiting to hear what the other divers on the trip say. I am still praying for peace for all involved.

 

[JamesBon92007]

The family has asked for privacy until the statement is given. Based upon what I have read in this thread there is a lot of misinformation going around which probably isn't going to serve us well.

 

[VirginiaYukon]

I think it is not appropriate to share the details of the incident, in order to respect the privacy of the family of the diver involved. I hope that comments will not be based on rumours, which only cause more pain to the family of the diver and needlessly damage the reputation of the DM and his dive shop.

I am a Canadian PADI MSDT and know this very experienced DM and his company, Banderas Scuba Republic, including the regular boat captains that he hires – I have dived with him since 2010 and have brought several groups to dive with him over the last few years (and plan to do so again in early 2019). His operation has always been extremely professional and safety-focused.

He took the time to review the incident with me, as given to local authorities and to PADI. I am confident in saying that the actions taken by the DM and his people were correct, according to established rules, common sense, and ocean conditions at the time.

 

[KeithG]

My goodness, it is very similar to this: Woman lost - Gili Lawa, Indonesia where @MrsNomad997 posted this (on page 2): “A comment on the FB post says that at 15m, she asked to ascend due to problems equalizaling. Her dive guide took her to 2m and left her to complete the ascent alone. It was only after the group's dive was completed that they realized she wasn't on the boat. Sad.”

This thread reminded me that this could end up being a story we have heard more than once before. So what can we learn from this incident? Assuming it is similar?

My impression is that it has become acceptable to ignore standard divebuddy rules when in a DM led group dive situation.

Are we
- getting safety complacent?
- forgetting our training?
- ignoring our training?

Note that having a dive buddy thumb the dive and the pair surface together may not necessarily have changed the survivability of the event. But it could have improved the odds?

 

[DandyDon]

I think it is not appropriate to share the details of the incident, in order to respect the privacy of the family of the diver involved. I hope that comments will not be based on rumours, which only cause more pain to the family of the diver and needlessly damage the reputation of the DM and his dive shop.

People are going to discuss the accident whether they do it here under moderation and with the spirit of learning, or elsewhere. Families are encouraged not to follow the discussions here, and I don't think anyone here is bothering them or their privacy. Censorship like your suggesting only encourages more rumors. Knowing what went wrong would help prevent such from happening more often.

Now, since you know the Op - perhaps you'd like to help with facts here?

Otherwise, I am reminded that it's good to encourage new divers to hire private DMs for their first ocean divers, even for their first time at a destination.

 

[Centrals]

This thread reminded me that this could end up being a story we have heard more than once before. So what can we learn from this incident? Assuming it is similar?

My impression is that it has become acceptable to ignore standard divebuddy rules when in a DM led group dive situation.

Are we
- getting safety complacent?
- forgetting our training?
- ignoring our training?

Note that having a dive buddy thumb the dive and the pair surface together may not necessarily have changed the survivability of the event. But it could have improved the odds?

I will thumb the dive if my allocated buddy, even if he/she is a complete stranger, has an issue. No question ask.
What would happen on the surface afterward is another matter.

 

[leslieinpv]

It is a small diving community , and a lot of talk is going on about what happened. What I hear, locals are saying the owner/ dm lost her diving and she did not come up. When problems happen we can learn from them. Knowing what happened instead of not talking about it, for what ever reasons given, only leads to accusations, and rumors. I hear different stories, and rumors, but sound to have some truth to it as well. Their is always two sides to a story, no matter what it is. And if the owner/dm is talking to other people about it, who is not related to the accident, he is obviously not respecting the privacy of the family as well. Why not talk about it openly. People are going to talk about it, regardless, I think it should be known what happened in the eyes of the instructor, as it differs from the captains version. Its hard for the family and those involved but, I think its worse not to talk about, we can use this to help others to prevent it happening again, it so we can learn from it or find the truth. When I mentioned that he does not have a diving boat and uses rentals, what I mean is that diving captains are different. They do not leave the boat and they keep their eyes on the bubbles the whole time or follow the divers as they dive. Come up from a dive with a diver, the captain should be ready to be in action, especially if their are divers under the water. Action for what, in case you need more weights, if you lose a diver, they can tell you where the bubbles are at, to help divers who need to get back to the boat when come up before the others. Those things a regular boat captain do not do. They might help the divers back into the boat, if they are not out snorkeling with the others.

 

[JamesBon92007]

It is a small diving community , and a lot of talk is going on about what happened. What I hear, locals are saying the owner/ dm lost her diving and she did not come up. When problems happen we can learn from them. Knowing what happened instead of not talking about it, for what ever reasons given, only leads to accusations, and rumors. I hear different stories, and rumors, but sound to have some truth to it as well. Their is always two sides to a story, no matter what it is. And if the owner/dm is talking to other people about it, who is not related to the accident, he is obviously not respecting the privacy of the family as well. Why not talk about it openly. People are going to talk about it, regardless, I think it should be known what happened in the eyes of the instructor, as it differs from the captains version. Its hard for the family and those involved but, I think its worse not to talk about, we can use this to help others to prevent it happening again, it so we can learn from it or find the truth. When I mentioned that he does not have a diving boat and uses rentals, what I mean is that diving captains are different. They do not leave the boat and they keep their eyes on the bubbles the whole time or follow the divers as they dive. Come up from a dive with a diver, the captain should be ready to be in action, especially if their are divers under the water. Action for what, in case you need more weights, if you lose a diver, they can tell you where the bubbles are at, to help divers who need to get back to the boat when come up before the others. Those things a regular boat captain do not do. They might help the divers back into the boat, if they are not out snorkeling with the others.

I agree that it should be helpful to know the facts however you seem to have fairly direct information which differs from the fairly direct information that I have. From what I have seen on SB in the past it does not serve any purpose to speculate about what might have happened. We were advised that a statement would be made and presumably that statement would be comprised of first-hand, accurate information. My girlfriend and I dive PV and are very interested in the facts, but only the facts. I have information that I have not posted because I don't know how accurate it is. I believe that a respectable amount of time has passed and I feel comfortable discussing the incident here at this point and I'm wondering just when is a statement going to be released? Judging from your user name you live in PV and are still getting different versions of what happened. The version I heard is from an instructor/dive op who heard what the authorities told the captains. It may be credible but it certainly is not direct and is different from what you said. I think that once we know the "truth" we can discuss the incident in a meaningful way. We may never know exactly what happened, especially if, as you said, the instructor's version is different from the captain's version. Also, there were other divers and we have not heard their version. Her son with with her and I can understand that he may not wish to talk about it.

 

[wgw04024]

James, the reality is that in a lot of these cases, the 'facts' just never materialize. As unfortunate as it is, people are going to speculate, possibly because they don't expect 'all' the facts to ever come out. And honestly, that is really what the forum is all about imho. It's nice to have all the facts, but in their absence, there is still value in speculating among fellow divers who simply want to become safer divers, by talking through the situations that they wish to avoid.

 

[JamesBon92007]

James, the reality is that in a lot of these cases, the 'facts' just never materialize. As unfortunate as it is, people are going to speculate, possibly because they don't expect 'all' the facts to ever come out. And honestly, that is really what the forum is all about imho. It's nice to have all the facts, but in their absence, there is still value in speculating among fellow divers who simply want to become safer divers, by talking through the situations that they wish to avoid.

I'd still like to hear from the instructor, the boat captain, and the other divers. How can we avoid the situation if we don't know what really happened?