Canadian Diver in Critical Condition - Yongala wreck dive mishap
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TishaDee
Registered
This brings up a good point that I've made several times to my husband... I wish there was an agency like (DAN as an example) that tracked and reported diver accidents and deaths by certifying agency. Although this may be more difficult then I'd like with so many divers having multiple certifications by different agencies (myself included) and with so many agencies being in bed with each other (DAN and PADI for example). But it would be interesting and beneficial for all, to see if any particular agency had a higher percentage of accidents and deaths. At least then, it would force agencies to re-evaluate their method of training and strive to improve it versus just marketing it.
John_B
Grasshopper
So... I was on a boat last month with a guy who's OW card is from PADI, his AOW is from NAUI, his Stress and Rescue (?) is from SSI, and his Nitrox, Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures are all from IANTD. So which agency gets the blame if (God forbid!) he has a medical emergency underwater?
TishaDee
Registered
ellisem
New
If I understand things correctly, Australia handles a great, great number of divers every year, much more so than other holiday destinations in the SE Asia-Oceana part of the world. That Australia carries this volume of divers and has as little accidents as it does is a testament to the professionalism in the country. How many people have dived safely at Yongala since 2003 (if in fact we are drawing some kind of parallel)? How does that compare to the Blue Hole in Egypt or other dive sites routinely visited annually? What volume of divers is there comparatively speaking when we decide the safety of these places in juxtaposition to others?
In addition to that, I don't think it is fair to target any one qualification agency. PADI is a whipping horse for many, sure, but I have met divers of all kinds certified by them and other places that run the gamut where skills and attitude come into play.
A good analogy I can think of is with driver's licenses. I think California is pretty fair in how they require people to earn their driving privileges, much better than in the Philippines. When I told my friends in Austria what is required in this process, they laughed at me, saying that drivers in Austria have to go to more classes and pass a more rigorous exam protocol than I did. Yet, many of these “superior” drivers have totaled cars on mountain roads, off snowy embankments, and one even drove his car into a freezing cold river luckily escaping with his life. I have one speeding ticket and am constantly accused by my mother of being the most boring, law-abiding driver she knows. At the same time, I also have friends who drive terribly with their Cali licenses in their pockets. One killed himself drunk one night after offering to give me a ride home. I still have guilt about letting him drive that night. I was young and inexperienced that time around.
Quick aside: As a matter of practicality (and survival), I became more aggressive in driving in the Philippines, prompting my mother on one visit to give me a temporary reprieve in the “boring” category.
It all boils down to the person in the end. Having a better boot camp experience before being certified in anything says nothing about what that person will do when the time comes to act in a certain way in the water or on the road. Training can be preferable between organizations. I don’t dispute that. But this ideal set as an in-all-cases requirement will never be a substitute for the most varied of variables—that ever maligned human quality that blows up space shuttles, allows for buildings to fall in earthquakes, and kills careless divers.
We should eschew the desire to scapegoat and blame when we want to understand why things go awry. It does nothing to help us get to the reality of these accidents. As divers and drivers, I think we should remain cautious of that slippery slope.
Cheers!
In addition to that, I don't think it is fair to target any one qualification agency. PADI is a whipping horse for many, sure, but I have met divers of all kinds certified by them and other places that run the gamut where skills and attitude come into play.
A good analogy I can think of is with driver's licenses. I think California is pretty fair in how they require people to earn their driving privileges, much better than in the Philippines. When I told my friends in Austria what is required in this process, they laughed at me, saying that drivers in Austria have to go to more classes and pass a more rigorous exam protocol than I did. Yet, many of these “superior” drivers have totaled cars on mountain roads, off snowy embankments, and one even drove his car into a freezing cold river luckily escaping with his life. I have one speeding ticket and am constantly accused by my mother of being the most boring, law-abiding driver she knows. At the same time, I also have friends who drive terribly with their Cali licenses in their pockets. One killed himself drunk one night after offering to give me a ride home. I still have guilt about letting him drive that night. I was young and inexperienced that time around.
Quick aside: As a matter of practicality (and survival), I became more aggressive in driving in the Philippines, prompting my mother on one visit to give me a temporary reprieve in the “boring” category.
It all boils down to the person in the end. Having a better boot camp experience before being certified in anything says nothing about what that person will do when the time comes to act in a certain way in the water or on the road. Training can be preferable between organizations. I don’t dispute that. But this ideal set as an in-all-cases requirement will never be a substitute for the most varied of variables—that ever maligned human quality that blows up space shuttles, allows for buildings to fall in earthquakes, and kills careless divers.
We should eschew the desire to scapegoat and blame when we want to understand why things go awry. It does nothing to help us get to the reality of these accidents. As divers and drivers, I think we should remain cautious of that slippery slope.
Cheers!
RasRitz
Registered
Does anyone have an update of Erin's condition??
TishaDee
Registered
I'd have to agree that Australia has the the most professional dive standards I've ever encountered, even when compared what I've encountered in CALI.
For example, there were two signatures required (yours and the deckmate) for every boat exit and three required (yours, the deckmate and the DM) for every boat entry, all to make sure no one was left behind at any particular site. We were over 30 miles from shore on a liveaboard for over a week, and I felt safer diving there then I do off some of our local monterey boats who just do a roll call before the first dive and after the last one. Leaving the door open for someone being left at a dive site somewhere in between.
When my husband and I eventually have our own charter we will be doing things the Australian way for sure. And we will be doing a checkout dive with every new customer. Return customers who've already done the checkout dive will get to proceed right on with there diving bypassing the checkout. But I think that as much as some people might be offended by the process and feel as though the're loosing a dive they've paid for, in the long run the type of customers we'll want... good divers who believe in putting safety first, will undertand that it's just because we care about their safety and are just trying to minimize the accidents and deaths while under out watch.
We've probably all been on a dive boat with someone who we knew before they even put one fin in the water, was going to be a problem diver and sure enough they always prove to be. Yet, a checkout dive seems to much to ask in NORCAL? No this brings up a hairy subject, people won't like to hear, but obvioulsy there will be people who won't pass the checkout dive or who prove to be a liability in some other way and those folks will be refunded their money for any incompleted dives and asked to never dive with us again. At the end of the day, I would rather loose out on business, if it meant saving lives. This sport isn't like golfing, where we all go home at the end of the day. I believe you have to have a respect for the sport and it's dangers and keep that in balance with your business greed.
**AND NOW FOR THE SB Flamers disclosure, all good hearted people can stop here: So go ahead and get your comments in about how we'll never turn a profit or get anyone on our boat with those protocols. How I'm stupid and don't know enough about this subject to have an oppinnion, let alone share it with the public. How you own a charter and know everything and would never do it that way and that's why you've had x number of people die on your charters. Blah, blah blah. :no
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