Can you be DIR if you are not GUE-trained?

Can you dive DIR if you have never taken a class from GUE?

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 63.5%
  • No

    Votes: 19 36.5%

  • Total voters
    52

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OK, I think it's time for me to admit - I don't have a CLUE about what the hell is GUE, what the hell is Halcyon (hope the spelling is more or less correct), :confused: although I think I have quite a clear idea of what DIR is.

So could you guys explain what is GUE ?

Thx.
 
Amanda once bubbled...
So could you guys explain what is GUE ?

GUE = Global Underwater Exporers - www.gue.com They are the agency that runs the training program [DIR-F, Tech 1, Cave 1, Triox, etc...] As well as the guys behind the 'DIR Quest' magazine and the 'quest list', which I'm sure you've also seen references to

Halcyon = an equipment manufacturer

edit: thanks for the correction eric.
 
It would better for the diving community for the terms "DIR" and "Doing It Right" to fade into obscurity.

If someone is GUE trained, it is clear what that means.

The other terms could mean anything, and imply that everyone else is doing it wrong.

Meanwhile, just take a look over at dirquest. DIR is a whole lifestyle. Diet, exercise, teamwork, gear, technique and mental focus. Not a lot of explanation given for that last one.

Like pug says, Dive Rite.

Or Do it left.
 
Spectre once bubbled...


Huh? What's this mean Mike?

It means that I can't require the mastery of skills that aren't normally performance requirements of a class. I have some latitude in how I define mastery of skills that are required though.

Some examples...

An OW class does require a student to swim neutrally buoyant for a minimum distance in confined water. Some might have a student swim quickly accross the pool and call it good if they don't touch the bottom. OTOH, I would have students adjust weight , balance and body position to achieve good trim. I would then have them in buddy teams move about using good finning technique doing stops, turns and depth changes. Technically it could be argued that both methods meet standards but which one is more like diving.

OTOH, I can't introduce a skill like lift bag deployment in this class. Why? PADI doesn't introduce this skill outside of their new tec class. IANTD introduces it in the Deep Diver class and the Advanced Nitrox class. In the above example even though my class looks very different from the average OW class I don't teach anything in the class that is in theory not already a requirement. Namely kicks, buoyancy control, ascents, decents and other skills like air sharing.

Another example...

Once in a while I have someone come to me and say "I don't want a tech class and I already have done (or don't want to do) an advanced class but would like you to help me learn some of this technique stuff. What do I do. I can't just take someone in the water and teach. I can't make things up as I go. Everything I do must be within the standards for some existing class. The insurance company covers me while teaching within PADI or IANTD standards. They do not cover me when teaching a Mike Ferrara special, just made it up today class. What standards do I have that I can work with? Well not much but what I use is the Peak Performance Buoyancy standards. Now before you laugh let me point out that this class covers finning technique, weighting, trim ect. I will admit that my class may look a bit different but it is within the letter of the standards. I can get a bunch of really good stuff in there but I don't dare toss ini things like liftbag deployment because nothing remotely like it is ever mentioned in the standards. I can address things like equipment configuration, buddy skills and dive planning in every class I teach because they are requirements in the standards of every class I teach.

If I turn out a student with solid skills and a clean functional equipment configuration do I have any desire to call it DIR? Absolutely not because it isn't and even if the match is good I am not qualified to define what is or is not DIR. Do I care? No. Are many of the elements common? Yes.

It isn't my fault that many obuse the holes in the standards or that the agency fails to streighten them out. The poor reputation gained from it is just another roadblack we have to deal with.
 
MikeFerrara once bubbled...



Once in a while I have someone come to me and say "I don't want a tech class and I already have done (or don't want to do) an advanced class but would like you to help me learn some of this technique stuff. What do I do. I can't just take someone in the water and teach. I can't make things up as I go. Everything I do must be within the standards for some existing class. The insurance company covers me while teaching within PADI or IANTD standards. They do not cover me when teaching a Mike Ferrara special, just made it up today class. What standards do I have that I can work with? Well not much but what I use is the Peak Performance Buoyancy standards. Now before you laugh let me point out that this class covers finning technique, weighting, trim ect. I will admit that my class may look a bit different but it is within the letter of the standards. I can get a bunch of really good stuff in there but I don't dare toss ini things like liftbag deployment because nothing remotely like it is ever mentioned in the standards. I can address things like equipment configuration, buddy skills and dive planning in every class I teach because they are requirements in the standards of every class I teach.


Mike reaises a very interestingt point. At least he is able to work around the standards to turn Peak Performance Bouyancy into something more meaningful.

The problem remains that a diver usually can't get an instructor to give the equivalent of a private lesson from a pro in many sports where the instruction is geared totally to that student in terms of the skills he needs to learn or sharpen up.

This is one of the reasons why there is such a divide between recreational and technical divers. Some of the recreational divers eventually get it, many don't. The problems in instruction are instutionalized. It is unfortunate that GUE has raised additional barriers to their DIRF course as it closes off another avenue. The real quesion is, when will the major training agencies get it?
 
leadweight once bubbled...


Mike reaises a very interestingt point. At least he is able to work around the standards to turn Peak Performance Bouyancy into something more meaningful.

The problem remains that a diver usually can't get an instructor to give the equivalent of a private lesson from a pro in many sports where the instruction is geared totally to that student in terms of the skills he needs to learn or sharpen up.

This is one of the reasons why there is such a divide between recreational and technical divers. Some of the recreational divers eventually get it, many don't. The problems in instruction are instutionalized. It is unfortunate that GUE has raised additional barriers to their DIRF course as it closes off another avenue. The real quesion is, when will the major training agencies get it?

They won't because it's a time and money issue. Good education, whether is scuba or something else takes time, and costs money. But we've all hashed this out on many other threads, so I'll just leave it at that.
 
detroit diver once bubbled...


They won't because it's a time and money issue. Good education, whether is scuba or something else takes time, and costs money. But we've all hashed this out on many other threads, so I'll just leave it at that.

Unfortunately, you are probably right.
 
detroit diver once bubbled...
I think part of the problem is that DIR is NOT a registered trademark of GUE, Halycon, or anyone for that matter.
Looks like you're right and I am mistaken - must have been denied - I know they tried, and I thought they had been successful. But apparently not. What they have now is "Halcyon DIR Diving Systems."
Rick
 
The only people I have dealt with on an educational level of DIR have almost turned me totally off the the idea. While I have picked up a LOT of very useful and helpful information, being told that unless I buy Halcyon bp/wings I will never be anything more than a mediocre diver kinda gets my gall. That is like saying only one type of golf club will work on the PGA tour. I want the education, the experience and I want to learn new things but not at the expense of having to blindly follow one path without question.
 

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