Camera Upgrade Questions: TG-6 to ?

[Germie]

I don't know what you mean, but I have answered your question. I own a em5 mk2 and an em1 mk2. And the difference in quality is zero. Underwater both do the same job. If you find the amount of focuspoints important, then go for the em1. But the em1 mk2 is now more or less the same as the em5 mk3. Only the battery is different, smaller. And the body is smaller than the em1.

But for you, the first thing is to understand photograpy better. I went from a gopro clone straight to a em5. But I readed a lot about aperature, shutter speed, iso etc. A good picture starts with compostion. Then it must be sharp and the tool is really the last thing. I made a picture with a goproclone or under 200 euro and that picture is now hanging full size (so human size) in a museum. If a goproclone can make such pictures (of course within the 'know the limits of your camera' principle), then for sure you can print good pictures on bigger sizes with the tg6. And if you think this is not possible, buy Gigapixel. But before buying a new camera, I would do a GOOD photography workshop or course for the tg6. Not a specialty where the instructor does not have any experience. In my country, a shop gives 4 hour workshops especially for tg6 user to tell them about the possibilities and impossibilities about the camera. Just a short tips and tricks workshop. And then also a workshop or course about composition etc would not be bad.
If you are an autodidact like me, you can learn it yourself, but you must have interest in it.

 

[arew+4]

Q

Huh? Again, I asked for suggestions on which cameras people tried after moving from the TG. This thread has gone 4 pages and I think there were only 3 posters who actually gave information about other camera systems. And, I don't know what you are talking about when you say the photos are out of focus. Which photos are out of focus? The flamingo tongue is certainly not OOF. The blennie is crisp, the shark is clear, I have no idea what you are talking about. The problem with the photos is I can't print larger than a 5" x 7" size without it becoming grainy and losing detail. OOF is certainly not a problem that I or the camera have been having. It appears this thread has exceeded its useful life. Thanks to those that provided information.

If you really want to become a good photographer and be able to blow your shots up to poster size, I would suggest a huge step backwards. Get a Nikonos V, there are many available with many lens, and macro tubes, and other accessories, for very affordable prices. Shoot E6 color slide film you can develop it cheaply your self, and project your images as large as you like (within reason). You can also buy a high resolution side scanner for digitization and printing.

This little bit of heresy, will hone your skills very quickly, with a limited setup, and only 24-36 shots per dive/boat trip you will be forced to focus on composition and lighting you won't have the option to flail away, snaping pictures with wild abandon. Macro tubes and framers will teach you about getting close and framing tight shots. Wide angle will teach you to leverage natural light.

 

[Guitarcrazy]

Barmaglot, I saw in another post that your a using a Sony A6xxx with the Salted Line housing. What do you think of that combo? I live in Montana, and travel to dive 3 to 4 times per year. I typically do 2 trips to Cozumel, and one to 2 trips to another destination. I don't want the bulk of a full frame or DSLR. I can carry all of my camera gear in a backpack now, which is nice. I do like the TG for macro, but I don't do a lot of macro due to the currents in Cozumel, and the fact that dive groups don't like waiting around for a photographer to set up a tripod and take photos of nudis. This is a hobby for me, and I am fortunate that I can afford to travel to dive, and can afford to buy decent camera gear. If the TG-7 were to release with a larger sensor, it would be a great option. Since that hasn't happened I am looking at the OM-D EM1 Mk ii and iii, Sony A6xxx, and possibly the E-PL10. I appreciate the suggestions from users of other systems and will make a selection before my next trip in December.

 

[David Haas]

I am going to hate myself for wading into this but here's some additional insights.......

I used DSLRs both full sized then my last Canon SL1 which was an APS-C size sensor only 12 megapixels for about 15 years (2001-2015.)

In 2015 I tired of carrying even the smallish Ikelite Canon SL1 housing and dual small DS51 strobes, cords, etc. After a Philippines trip with a 1" sensor Canon G7X II along with my DSLR I came home and sold all my SLR items. Everything.......Canon SL1 camera bodies (2), 3-4 lenses, surface flash, underwater housing and strobes, cords, etc.

I switched exclusively to a compact Canon G7X II. I've used a Sony RX100 VII also (only snorkeling with humpback whales in Moorea' French Polynesia fall of 2021) both in Fantasea housings.

The big advantage if you want to make prints is the 1" sensor in these compacts.

The smaller 1/2.3" sensor in the Olympus TG-6 and previous models while great for super macro is still a small sensor. Printing bigger than maybe 8" X 10" (depending on who you have print it) the TG-6 prints may not look like you want is all.

I try helping UW photographers on a few hosted trips I still run but they're certainly not photo centric dive trips. No Adobe Photoshop / Lightroom seminars, etc.

Many I try to help don't believe the easy tips I give them work and go home without decent pics

But in the interest of trying to help here goes my simplified summary:

* Manually set your ISO for tropical diving to lowest (125 on my Canon G7X II) as this has better dynamic range.

* On the mentioned 1" sensor camera shoot in M manual adjustment mode. Pick a "good for 90%" shutter speed / f-stop setting to start.
I suggest 1/125, f5.6 on any 1" sensor as the best choice for wide to medium focal lengths using any strobe(s).

NOTE: Stopping to a higher number (smaller f-stop) simply creates "diffraction" or subtle blurring of the image while not gaining much more depth of field.

* I have shot thousands of illuminated with two small Inon S2000 units on the S-TTL mode. I love the small size for travel and diving.

Shooting S-TTL means you set your camera's pop up flash to TTL (AUTO in many cameras menu flash setting) which will transmit through your fiber optical cords up to the strobe.

People who say TTL doesn't work don't understand it.....Your flash needs to be close enough to bounce off the subject, hit your camera's sensor and if not needing the flash to dump full power will automatically "quench" or cut off the flash to a lesser output.

* The biggest problem people don't understand shooting flash is if you can't reach out and almost touch the subject you'll never light it no matter what flash you have!!!

Bumping iSO may help a bit (maybe 1' farther away?) but water distance from camera to subject will filter out any strobe's power and color.

Looking at thousands of compact camera's pictures and the EXIF data I've found 99% of my best shots were taken at ISO125, Shutter speed 1/125 and f5.6.

I confess these days I'm more a wide angle / medium distance fish shot photographer having tons of nudibranchs and other macro shots. It simply doesn't interest me as much is all.

Search for my name here on Scubaboard for sample pics and other comments but these parameters rule in my book.

The only upgrade I'd recommend is a 1" larger sensor compact camera that most people can capture great images to use however they want !

Just one old guy's opinion

David Haas

 

[Guitarcrazy]

Thanks David. I have seen some of your photos and I respect your opinion. I also want to use the new camera for topside photography, which the TG-6 is not well suited for at all. Your photos are terrific, and definitely something to aspire to. I use the TG in the manner recommended by Backscatter, in A mode, with manual shutter speed and ISO limits set. It works decently well, but I have to crop the photos in most cases which makes them lose a lot of data and render them too small to print. I would be very interested in the larger sensor compacts except that I am not sure they will be good for topside photos. To be honest, I get better photos from my smartphone that I do with the TG-6. I appreciate the well thought out response.

 

[Barmaglot]

Barmaglot, I saw in another post that your a using a Sony A6xxx with the Salted Line housing. What do you think of that combo?

Overall I'm happy with the results I get, but I am kinda miffed about the lack of a native fisheye, and macro options are not ideal. The 90mm is slow and somewhat too long, while Canon EF-S 60mm via Metabones adapter is faster but has a tendency to hunt back and forth forever and fail to lock focus in poor light.

Here is a sample trip album in better resolution than Instagram: The Smiling Seahorse 2022 January 13-20 – Google Drive

By the way, another option for getting more resolution for print - and a lot less expensive than a new rig - is Adobe Super Resolution, Topaz Gigapixel AI, or another similar upscaling tool. You can see Adam Hanlon and Alex Mustard discussing the subject here:

 

[Guitarcrazy]

Those are some great photos. I didn't recognize some of the animals. It looks like you did some blackwater diving? I tried to do that on my last trip to Cozumel but the dive op we were with does not offer it.

I have tried the enhance function and it does seem to work decently well, but like most things if you start with a better product it always works out better. Do all Sony cameras have limited lenses that work well underwater, or just the APS/C cameras? That is one advantage of the Olympus products, there are a lot of good lenses that seem to work well underwater. I was hoping Sony was the same, but I haven't researched housing and lens options fully. Thanks for the info.

 

[tursiops]

photographer to set up a tripod and take photos of nudis.

This explains a lot, and confirms the suggestions that you need training, not equipment. You do not use a tripod to shoot nudis.

 

[Barmaglot]

Do all Sony cameras have limited lenses that work well underwater, or just the APS/C cameras?

I admit to feeling a bit of a lens envy towards Olympus 8mm fisheye, 8-25mm zoom and the 30/45/60mm macro lineup. I use Sony 10-18mm and 16-50mm for wide-angle, 90mm for macro and supermacro, and Canon 60mm for blackwater and some macro.

The biggest limitation of Sony mirrorless, both APS-C and full-frame, is lack of a proper fisheye lens. APS-C users can adapt the excellent Tokina 10-17mm, and full-frame users can use either Canon 8-15mm or Sigma 15mm in Canon EF-mount, but older cameras such as A6000 or A7/A7 II can struggle to autofocus with adapted lenses. I've been looking into getting a Tokina 10-17mm for my rig, but SeaFrogs does not provide a zoom gear for it, and while it could be used in the 6-inch or 8-inch dome, at least as a prime lens, I'd like to shoot close-focus wide-angle using a 4-inch compact dome, and SeaFrogs does not have the proper extension for it - the 4-inch dome fits a short lens such as the manual Samyang 8mm, or Sony 16mm with VCL-ECF converter, but Tokina 10-17mm plus EF-E mount adapter is too long to fit it properly.

On the other hand, Sony cameras, especially full-frame ones, work exceptionally well with water-contact optics. The APS-C 16-50mm works with a variety of wet wide lenses, and the full-frame 28-60mm pairs with Nauticam WWL-1 and WACP series to very good effect - to the point where some Nikon Z users are using those via an adapter. I recently got a Fantasea UWL-09 to use with my 16-50mm, and while I haven't yet had a chance to take it on a dive, pool testing shows a fisheye-like perspective, considerably wider than my 10-18mm at its widest setting.

 

[Blackcrusader]

This explains a lot, and confirms the suggestions that you need training, not equipment. You do not use a tripod to shoot nudis.

I don't have a tripod and find nudi's easy to photograph. If I can try to stay below and shoot up but sometimes that's not possible.