Calm-headed response

[ReadyDiverOne]

You are probably correct. You want to have a working regulator in your mouth ASAP. However, the situation is somewhat of a gray area. He had NOT lost his air supply. It was working for him. He didn't (immediately) need another regulator.

If his second stage had exploded in 1000 pieces, I bet he would have first secured a new second stage (probably his octopus).

So if a diver hears an air leak behind his head, is the text book answer to begin taking air from a buddy? Even when his regulator works fine?

Obviously removing the tank could be a big problem for some people. Especially ones who have a whole lot of lead on their tank, very little on their body, so when they remove the tank, they are presented with a significant challenge. I don't necessarily think it is a good model for the typical diver, but it shows a calm diver solving a problem quickly and effectively and safely with very little drama.

Two points: first, yes, if an OW diver hears an explosion of bubbles--like what happened in this case--from behind him/her the procedure is NOT to take off one's tank and see if one can fix the problem, it is to immediately secure an alt air source. And second, yes, removing the tank (and BCD) to look for the problem is NOT what an OW diver should do. As I have tried mightily to make clear, I am only talking about how a normal, non-DM, OW diver should have dealt with this situation.

I think the procedure for OW through Cave2 is:
- Alert team/buddies to an issue.
- Assess it
- Resolve it (if feel reasonably can) or ask for assistance (if feel need help).
- Update team/buddies on status

At new OW, that may translate as tell buddy, get reg you trust, go up as not sure what else to do.
We expect our barest OW divers to resolve a free flowing 2nd stage, not grab buddies octo and ascend.
The scale slides from there.
But it is the same procedure.
Some OW divers that may mean remove BC, shut down the valve, swap a hose, reopen valve. (not sure why and a bit extreme)

I have no idea what you training you are talking about. Again, we are talking about an explosion of bubbles from behind the diver. Under those circumstances, and again for a regular non-DM OW diver, any approach other than immediately seeking out an alt air supply is foolhardy. And your last point about an OW diver removing their BCD, shutting down the valve, swapping a hose, etc., is just plain reckless advice to give any OW diver.

A very calm response to a serious situation.

As he is a working professional DM, I suspect his comfort in the water is seriously higher than a lot of peoples. He is likely, due to that fact, to have a low gas consumption rate and probably nortmally comes up with a ton of air left when customers are signalling low. So he did what, to him, was the route of least problems:
1) realise there was a problem
2) Realise the problem was with his rig and reassure the paying customers that there was no need to be alarmed (he would not know how they might react to a first stage freeflow)
3) He knew he could manage to breathe of his second stages at that point so no hurry to snatch an alternate from his customers.
4) Knowing he has spare gas on hand (the divers had offered their alternates), he takes his time to assess the problem and form a plan. Doffing the gear to inspect the source of the problem was super easy and he then realises where the leak is and that it isn't solvable.
5) Knowing that the surface is reasonably close he decides not to bother de-donning the kit (potentially thinking about ditching it if it proves to be an issue).
6) Calmly signals to ascend while taking alternate air source.

Looking at this situation and comparing his reactions with those of an OW qualified diver is disingenious. There is no right and wrong way to react in this case. The OW diver will react in one way due to skills and experience whereas the DM will react in a hugely different way.

Once again, this is not the point! There is a RIGHT answer for a non-DM, regular OW diver, and that is DON'T remove your BCD and spend valuable time (and air) fiddling with the tank; instead, immediately seek an alt air source. And I don't think you mean that it is disingenuous (that means lacking candor or sincerity) to assert--as I have done--that what this guy did worked for him but should NOT be emulated by regular non-DM divers as it is dangerous. That is not disingenuous--it is a matter of fact.

my guess is the 2 main characters were both DMs and the leaking tanks was a stimulating exercise in their otherwise ordinary day on a dive site they'd probably been on hundreds of times. It was probably the most excitement theyd had all year.
They probably don't give a rat what the book says they dealt with it as they saw fit and dealt with it well

This is a very good guess.

Peace out.

 

[Lorenzoid]

my guess is the 2 main characters were both DMs and the leaking tanks was a stimulating exercise in their otherwise ordinary day on a dive site they'd probably been on hundreds of times. It was probably the most excitement theyd had all year.
They probably don't give a rat what the book says they dealt with it as they saw fit and dealt with it well

That's my thinking in a nutshell. They did what they did for reasons (which we can only guess) OTHER than that they believed that was the textbook way to handle it.

 

[MichaelMc]

@ReadyDiverOne, You're asking if an OW diver should respond this way to air venting behind their head.
If that 'see what is wrong' response is what comes to them in the moment, as something they expect will be natural and easy for them, with buddies hovering near by, yes.
If not, no.

The response could be 'slide BC off a shoulder, take a look, then shut down the valve to stop the noise while get air from buddy'. I expect that is in the range for non-pro OW divers.

If 'some but not all' answers your question, did you have a point beyond that?
Like:
- the DM should not have done that, as it misleads students.
- We should not praise it, as it misleads students.
... ?

 

[Neilwood]

Two points: first, yes, if an OW diver hears an explosion of bubbles--like what happened in this case--from behind him/her the procedure is NOT to take off one's tank and see if one can fix the problem, it is to immediately secure an alt air source. And second, yes, removing the tank (and BCD) to look for the problem is NOT what an OW diver should do. As I have tried mightily to make clear, I am only talking about how a normal, non-DM, OW diver should have dealt with this situation.

I have no idea what you training you are talking about. Again, we are talking about an explosion of bubbles from behind the diver. Under those circumstances, and again for a regular non-DM OW diver, any approach other than immediately seeking out an alt air supply is foolhardy. And your last point about an OW diver removing their BCD, shutting down the valve, swapping a hose, etc., is just plain reckless advice to give any OW diver.

Once again, this is not the point! There is a RIGHT answer for a non-DM, regular OW diver, and that is DON'T remove your BCD and spend valuable time (and air) fiddling with the tank; instead, immediately seek an alt air source. And I don't think you mean that it is disingenuous (that means lacking candor or sincerity) to assert--as I have done--that what this guy did worked for him but should NOT be emulated by regular non-DM divers as it is dangerous. That is not disingenuous--it is a matter of fact.

This is a very good guess.

Peace out.

I have no idea why you think I was referring to you - I was making my observations of the situation but as you have chosen to quote me I will respond.

An experienced DM or OW diver can, with a bit or experience and knowledge, attempt to fix things that may cause other divers (with less expereince or skill) to head directly to the surface. He clearly still has gas and has decided that there is no absolute rush to grab anyone elses alternate air source. I would suggest that, even with my lowly number of dives, I would (dependent on the volume of gas remaining prior to the start of the problem), take at least a moment to try to fault find and see if I could cure it (is it a loose hose that I can hand tighten, a cut hose I can kink to slow the flow of gas or can I feather the valve to mitigate gas loss?).

To suggest that ANY approach other than immediately seeking an alternate air source is dangerous is vastly oversimplifying things. A vast number of experienced OW divers (a number of whom can be found on this forum and have never bothered going beyond OW) would have no problems in doffing their equipment, checking for leaks and adapting their behaviour according to what they find. I was taught by my OW instructor that unless I was IMMINENTLY out of air that I should stop, breath, think and act. The diver in the video knew alternate gas was available within arms reach at any point in the video. That in itself makes this a cool video but not an emergency - he was never imminiently out of air and he knew it.

One difference might be that, over here, we are trained to dive in conditions ( good vis is anything above 3m and surge and currents are to be expected) that a lot of warm water divers might think twice about and in most cases the training here turns out pretty solid divers who can form a good buddy pair straight away. Hence we probably think a lot harder about being good buddies and maintaining close contact and solving our own issues because we can't necessarily depend on outside assistance. I was taught by my OW instructor that unless I was IMMINENTLY out of air that I could and should stop, breath, think and act.

You say my use of the word is wrong but the definitions of disingenious that I use are:
1) (of a person or their behaviour) slightly dishonest, or not speaking the complete truth (as per Cambridge dictionary)
or
2) not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does (as per Oxford Dictionary).

To my mind your approach is disingenious on the above definitions:
1) You are not addressing the full truth of the situation - only pushing your viewpoint of what YOU think is acceptable based on YOUR viewpoint.
2) You willfully pretend that the situation is not what it actually was.

 

[johndiver999]

It has been mentioned, but maybe not emphasized, that removing the tank and holding it like that, greatly aids in the ease of feathering the valve.

In a situation such as this, that could be quite beneficial because it can potentially preserve enough air to make a normal ascent without any aid.

 

[MichaelMc]

My brother has a buddy that has taught state-winning high school soccer for a few decades. Some things he describes as not smart soccer. Mostly around risk of loosing the ball.

Lorenzoid is right, taking the BC off was a calculated risk. There was some risk involved. Getting a reg from a buddy would have been lower risk at that moment. For example the DM did get their necklace and long hose tangled, but easily resolved it.

But 'ascend now' is not always possible or wise, so I think we start trying to teach people to solve issues underwater. We even start there with things like 2nd stage freeflow. So 'lets see what is wrong' becomes more what we want normal divers to do. So investigating, as comfortable, is what we want them to do. In seeing what is wrong, that extra reg hose from the buddy can get in the way a bit. So saying 'hang on with that, I'm good for now' seems fine.

I think 'sliding the BC off to assess the situation' is smart diving, if the diver is comfortable with it and weighting makes that easy. As it builds a mindset and reality of ease underwater.

'Do not touch anything on the gear, just breath, or ascend' is a dangerous view to advance.

 

[ReadyDiverOne]

@MichaelMc I'm afraid your response makes no sense--you seem to be suggesting that a non-DM regular OW diver might or might not be able to take the BCD off and try to figure out what's going on and that this might or might not be be ok if buddies are nearby or not. But again, while the non-DM regular OW diver is doing that, her/her air is blasting away, maybe the buddy is drifting away or his/her air is running out too, and the next thing you know, while the non-DM regular diver is fixated/tunnel-visioned on trying to fix the problem, they run out of air and their buddy isn't nearby. And so they drown! Why on earth would anyone proceed that way when one can instead grab an alt air source and then try to figure out what's going on with the tank? In either event, you're going to thumb the dive. And no, my point is not that this DM should not have done what he did--my point is that what he did is NOT best practice for regular, non-DM divers and could result in death. As others have said, a lot of new divers read this board and they shouldn't get the idea that this guy's procedure is the right way to go if and when faced with a similar situation.

@Neilwood: First, I do think your answer reflects your limited experience--the idea that if your tank was exploding bubbles that you would proceed as you suggest strains credulity. Again, this is a dive-ending, life-threatening situation and as such the first thing to be done is to secure an alt air source. Second, you conflate a DM with an OW and that obviously is not the point I am making. That point is very simple: in this circumstance, faced with an explosion of bubbles from behind you, a regular OW diver should first look for an alt air source answer before doing anything else. That is the calm, collected, thoughtful thing to do, not think, hey, I am so cool I'm going to take my BCD off and see if I can fix the problem before I run out of air. To state the obvious, in this circumstance, you don't know and can't know how long your air is going to last--all you can see is that it's flying out of the tank at a precipitous rate.

Finally, I have no idea why you would say that I am being "dishonest" or "not speaking the whole truth" and ask that you retract that statement.

 

[ReadyDiverOne]

It has been mentioned, but maybe not emphasized, that removing the tank and holding it like that, greatly aids in the ease of feathering the valve.

In a situation such as this, that could be quite beneficial because it can potentially preserve enough air to make a normal ascent without any aid.

Yes, I get that and, if your buddy isn't around (that's a whole separate issue), then that would be a good strategy to get to the surface, although feathering from a tank valve is more difficult than doing so from the second stage and, again, you don't know how long the air will last you--the flow could increase or decrease given pressure changes, etc. So again, I would look for my buddy's octo first and then thumb the dive. We agree the dive is over, yes?

 

[MichaelMc]

As mentioned above, I think this is the procedure the OW diver should follow (as well as the cave 2 diver.):

I think the procedure for OW through Cave2 is:
- Alert team/buddies to an issue.
- Assess it
- Resolve it (if feel reasonably can) or ask for assistance (if feel need help).
- Update team/buddies on status

ETA: bolding and underlining added. I believe that addresses that circumstances and divers differ. Alert and update team implies, to me, that they are not wandering off.

 

[Storker]

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