Calling off the trip

[Tortuga James]

Thanks for the feedback. It was never unsafe, just a bit uncomfortable.

The group leader is a dive shop owner, and I really wanted him to have a good experience, it was his first time on the boat. It all turned out, they got to experience how the boat and skipper handled the rough conditions and and it validated my ability to assess the weather correctly.

I don't think I ever gave the impression that I was relinquishing the authority to call the trip, but I wanted him to agree with it. We were the only boat that we saw all morning.

He is booking multiple dates this summer, so it was worth the $50 worth of fuel and 2 hours of my time.

 

[captjuan]

I can sympathize with you James. Sometimes you just have to make the call.I had a shop from Atlanta call me every day for a week prior to coming down right after Ivan came by us. They kept asking what the vis was, I kept telling them that there was none. They came any way. When they arrived I told them before they unloaded there gear that there was still no viz. The group leaders remark was that I was scared to go. We went anyway. Somehow my deckhand found the wreck and tied us in and everybody piled off. We spent the next hour picking people up all around the boat. When they got back on board everybody complained of the viz. I told them I was sorry but that I tried to tell them. My morel to this is that sometimes groups get so fired up to come out on a boat and dive that they lose sight of the safety issue. Also most of these people come from landlocked states and know nothing of NOAA weather or weather buoys or any thing. This experience taught me to stand my ground, right or wrong it is my ultimate decision and mine only.

 

[Tortuga James]

I Also most of these people come from landlocked states and know nothing of NOAA weather or weather buoys or any thing.

Some people think you can read the marine weather by looking online at the weather for the town of Beaufort. I gave them a 30% chance of running before they left home and drove down and got a motel room. We all know that sometimes NOAA is spot on, and other times they totally miss it. I can basically tell by wind direction and speed at the dock what it is going to be like. Then it is just a matter of deciding the chances for it getting better or worse.

 

[BabyDuck]

ken, from the non-captain standpoint trying to put myself in the captain's shoes, i think you did right. actually, i thought you needed to at least be paid for the fuel & your time, but if you're looking at that as an investment in the shop's future trips, i guess i can see that.

marginal conditions on shore, as you know, can be laying down past the inlet or really letting loose. 'marginal' can reasonably mean 'well, let's go check it out'.

it's so cool to know a dive boat cap'n!

 

[Tortuga James]

Well, I was offered fuel money that I didn't accept. I only burned 19 gallons, and it was $1.96 at the yacht basin with my discounts.

2 of the guys in the group were equipment reps, and both offered to pass out brochures to the dive shops they call on, so it was well worth the investment.

It just got me thinking about how I will handle future issues.

 

[TSandM]

Around here, the rule is simple: If the charter cancels the boat, the money is refunded. If the divers cancel it, they forfeit the fee. So I actually applaud you for trying to cancel your trip -- Sometimes our captains, if conditions are unpleasant, will take divers out and let the divers make the decision not to get in the water, so they get the charter fee, which is kind of tacky.

I guess what would have worried me most was safety. If you do take them out, and they do decide (unwisely) to dive, and someone is injured attempting to reboard, it's a liability problem. Or if a diver is lost because surface conditions are so poor that you can't see them on the surface. I guess those are hard decisions to make in the face of customers who are insisting that "they can handle it".

 

[wreckchick]

When I had my own boat, some calls I just made, it's a no dive day. Some days were marginal in which case I'd let people cancel for a full refund or I would leave to dock to go check it out but if I got past the mouth of the channel the trip was paid in full whether we dove or not. Some people are hardier souls than others and willing to take a shot at it. Most people would cancel, take the refund and try and dive another day.

I always used to tell folks to check the weather on the internet and if the banner at the top of the marine advisory said "Small Craft Warning" we weren't diving. Call in then go back to bed.

You hate to disappoint people, but safety and fun are more important in my book.

Rachel

 

[rjack321]

I'm not diving offshore, but my personal boat approach is to:
1) Possibly switch to a backup site the night before
2) drive to the dock almost no matter what (basically anytime I don't need an ark to get there).

Particularly when it comes to winds, our NOAA forecasts are spotty and Environment Canada's are even more squirrely. Just like you don't climb mountains from home, I think you need to be present to make an onsight call.

If I had a charter I think I would be giving the forecasts much more weight Also I definately would not be giving the passengers the impression that I didn't want to go out but they convinced me otherwise. Its a "yes" or "no" IMHO, not a "maybe, if you really want to".

 

[Mike Ange]

I ran a charter boat (a 42' Ocean) out of Morehead City in the mid to late 90's and this was an all too common problem. After a few years with some conflict but mostly understanding customers we came to some conclusions. #1. Group leaders typically have to "live" with the divers on the trip, who are frequently regular customers. #2. Because of this relationship the GL may be more reluctant than he or she should be when it comes to calling a trip and in his/her perception ruining a perfectly good vacation (not nearly as bad as ending with a search and rescue call or a trip to the hospital - but perception is a funny thing). #3 They are paying the CAPT for expert advice and they really expect you to give it - even if they puff up a bit to attempt to save face with their group.

Using these 3 realities we decided to deal with the issue up front. We had a form that was sent to every diver with his confirmation and we addressed bad weather.
If we called it before we left the dock - full refund and no issue. BTW we always went to the dock.
If the forecast was really bad we would attempt to call the dive before people made the trip - but we gave the divers the option in that case because conditions can change quickly.
If seas were questionable and the divers wanted to see for themselves (answering the best dive I ever had was on a bad forecast day argument - and admitting there certainly are those days in NC where NOAA gets it all wrong) we had a fee for a run through the inlet to see. It was nominal but it covered fuel and a small fee for the CAPT.
Obviously we also specified that final call was the CAPT's - no question and no debate.

Over the years we had a number of group leaders contact us privately to say thank you for stepping up and taking the responsibility - a few of those were the biggest jerks we had to deal with on the dock. So I think the real issue is the expectation you set in advance. Spell it out in writing and fall back on the release when their is conflict. If you do, your good customers will understand and those that do not are probably more of a liability risk than you want on your boat anyway.

Safe Diving,
Mike Ange
USCG Lic Master

 

[cowdog77]

"If seas were questionable and the divers wanted to see for themselves........ we had a fee for a run through the inlet to see. It was nominal but it covered fuel and a small fee for the CAPT."
_____________________________

Good policy....and fair 'nuff.
Obviously we also specified that final call was the CAPT's - no question and no debate.