California diver dies in heavy surf

[Jax]

Disclaimer:

[tongue in cheek]

The above information is in the news and therefore should be labeled speculative.

[/tongue in cheek]


I wonder if the full cardiac arrest is the result of the struggle in, or the reason for the struggle in.

 

[Rainer]

I'd be VERY loathe to ditch gear in big surf. The ONE thing that gives me comfort going in and out of surf is knowing I have a VERY long time to deal with any issues, especially underwater or in the surf break, given the amount of gas I carry on my back (even at the end of a dive).

That said, I agree with Bubbletrubble: each scenario is different and needs to be taken in stride. There are no "one size fits all" rules for dealing with emergencies.

 

[Jax]

Rainer, help me out understanding this --

I'm 5'4" and 120 lbs. My gear on, if a single, is ~50lbs at 4 feet above the ground. A wave could topple me PDQ.

If I just ditched the gear, I now have a 50lb trip-monster rolling wildly in the surf.

I don't know how deep or what these guys were, but it sounds like the brother helped his brother as far forward as possible, then ditched his gear out of the way to go back and drag the ill brother in.

I think I see that in deeper surf, that would not be wise to dump gear, but once I believed I had firm enough footing, what the brother did makes sense.

(Can see that I will need surf lessons if I ever get up the courage to dive in the frozen Pacific.)

 

[Rainer]

My wife is smaller than you. She routinely (weekly) dives large surf (sometimes as tall as her), wearing heavy gear (sometimes matching her body weight). Getting in and out safely is a matter of experience and technique (with good judgment being what keeps you from diving on days you shouldn't). Your first goal is not getting knocked down. This requires skill (reading the waves, timing, body position, streamlined gear, strength, etc). If you do go down, you have to realize you might be underwater for quite some time, possibly longer than you could hold your breath. A "bad" surf break is one where the water will draw out strongly, as the next wave breaks, making progress toward the beach very difficult. You might be in a "sand-sky-sand-sky-sand-sky" tumble for awhile. Personally, I want a regulator in my mouth during such times. If you can get your bearings, best to either crawl toward to the beach or kick back out past the break and try again. In the surf zone, there is rarely such thing as "firm footing".

While there are some shore areas where ditching might be appropriate (and certainly some conditions), for most serious surf areas, you're going to have a much better time with lots of breathing gas available. If you can't breathe, you can't help a teammate. Just like BT, the people I dive with *will* offer assistance when possible in the surf zone, but sometimes you need to help yourself first before attending to others.

As for the case in question, it's really hard to know what happened from the details available. If the now deceased diver was in medical trouble prior to exit (e.g. having a heart attack), every possible expedience needs to be taken to get him out. Otherwise, it's best to plan your exit carefully (from behind the surf break) and once you see an opening, move quickly toward shore, always watching for waves and prepared to deal with them as they come.

We dived Laguna this past Sunday (right before the lifeguards closed all shore diving in the city) in overhead surf. I certainly would not have tried that with less experience (nevermind the fact visibility was awful and the dive hardly worth the hassle).

Rainer, help me out understanding this --

I'm 5'4" and 120 lbs. My gear on, if a single, is ~50lbs at 4 feet above the ground. A wave could topple me PDQ.

If I just ditched the gear, I now have a 50lb trip-monster rolling wildly in the surf.

I don't know how deep or what these guys were, but it sounds like the brother helped his brother as far forward as possible, then ditched his gear out of the way to go back and drag the ill brother in.

I think I see that in deeper surf, that would not be wise to dump gear, but once I believed I had firm enough footing, what the brother did makes sense.

(Can see that I will need surf lessons if I ever get up the courage to dive in the frozen Pacific.)

 

[Frosty]

Hey folks with my paltry number of scuba dives I cant comment like others can on what to do with scuba gear when in surf.
But before I got back into scuba I have been snorkle/freediving for a really long time and they are always shore dives
In seas up to 7 foot.(anything more and vis is useless). Goin in or out in decent seas I ALWAYS have my mask pulled down off my face and onto my neck. Violent waves just rip gear off really fast.
Also when entering/exiting if I cant get down under the waves then as someone else posted I turn sideon with a spreadleg stance then drop as low as I can just before the wave hits Always I try to ensure my lungs are full when the waves hit.
If the wave catches you offguard I find ragdolling not fighting it and being really relaxed is easier on the body.
Also if its a rocky seabottom and I get dumped-Forget ego my arms are protecting my head. A banged up arm is a pita but a whack on the noggin from a good wave dump could mean its all over red rover.
And like someone else said. Doesn't matter how much ya want to do the dive if it looks really knarly thumb the dive before ya even start

 

[Rainer]

Hey folks with my paltry number of scuba dives I cant comment like others can on what to do with gear when in surf.
But before I got back into scuba I have been snorkle/freediving and they are always shore dives In seas up to 7 foot.(anything more and vis is useless). Goin in or out in decent seas I ALWAYS have my mask pulled down off my face and onto my neck. Violent waves just rip gear off really fast.
Also when entering/exiting if I cant get down under the waves then as someone else posted I turn sideon with a spreadleg stance. Always I try to ensure my lungs are full when the waves hit.
If the wave catches you offguard I find ragdolling not fighting it and being really relaxed is easier on the body.

Thanks for posting about your experiences free diving. For the most part, it seems like the approaches for scuba and free diving are similar. I did want to point out two areas of possible difference, though, based on what you posted.

First, if you are going to go in/out with a reg in your mouth, I'd strongly advise *AGAINST* keeping your lungs full. Much better to work on the shallow side of your lung volume if getting tossed around given the potential for barotrauma when breathing compressed gas. Definitely always keep your airway open.

Second, I always try to keep my mask on in the surf zone. We do wear thick hoods (7-12mm) and with the mask skirt tucked underneath, it's actually pretty rare that a mask will get knocked off. For the most part, having one in place allows you to see (useful) and keeps potentially very cold water off your face (making it easier to breathe). In any case, a hand to the face to keep the mask on when waves break over you is always a good idea.

 

[bleeb]

I can also see things both ways, and it could very well depend on details of the exact situation which the person on the scene may see better than any of us getting information second or third hand. On the one hand, I'd much rather have something to breathe. On the other hand, if I'm diving with my brother and I think he's in bad enough shape that I'll have to drag him, I might be concerned enough about the limits of my own strength to get rid of 60-70 lbs of my own gear before trying to get another 300 lbs of sibling + gear back on solid ground.

 

[Rainer]

I know one issue for those that dive in cold water (e.g. here in SoCal) is that our exposure suits are extremely positively buoyant. If I were to ditch my gear (even keeping my weight belt in place), I'd float. It's VERY hard to exit yourself, much less a distressed buddy, in surf that pulls you in and out when you have no traction. It's one reason we immediately dump our wings/BCs when doffing our fins. You WANT to be weighed to the sand. It's really your only hope of making progress toward shore when there's strong backflow from receding waves. I really can't imagine floating and trying to "swim out" another diver in strong surf... The fallacy is believing that strong surf is passively going to throw you out onto the beach. In truth, it's going to hold you right at the break and keep you there unless you can deliberately move out. Having your feet planted firmly underneath you just strikes me as a real plus.

 

[Hatul]

I agree that without knowing more about what went on it's hard to analyze the best actions. Also it's not right to make judgments of someone who is grieving the loss of his brother.

It did strike me as odd to remove the scuba gear before going back to help the buddy. The one time my buddy injured his knee on exiting surf I just threw my fins on the beach and went back to help him turtle out. I know how my gear feels in the water and I'm weighted properly. I have no experience going into the surf with just my wetsuit and I'd be concerned I'd float like a cork with no control.

Also someone mentioned the diver may have suffered a heart attack. Given that he was just 37 that is unlikely (though not impossible).

Adam

 

[DandyDon]

There could have been any number of medical and/or injury issues - hard to say, but we have no reason to think there was do we? Assuming not, my take away on this reinforces my previous feelings....

1: If it's a bad surf day, don't go in.

2: If the surf is too much for a safe exit, don't. Pop your SMBs and wait for help.

The rocky shore references really bug me. I missed a sandbag exit on a Cozumel night shore dive once and had to crawl out over the ironstone. Without big waves, still on fun.