Calgarian suing diver training organization

[swamp diver]

A point of interest-

In Canada CSA standards for diving (Z275.2-11) only call for CO detectors on mobile compressors run by internal combustion engines. They have to be set at 3ppm and have auto shutoff. I can't find anything else about CO monitoring for diving operations.

The CSA standard for compressed breathing air (Z180.1-13)requires CO detectors with visual and audible alarms set for 5ppm.

I'm not sure what standard Ontario OHS mandates for diving but generally commercial diving ops (which include stores, etc) go with Z275. Z180 is what fire halls, oil field safety companies, sandblasters, etc are governed by.

The Canadian Standards Association (CSA) Z275.2-11 occupational safety code for diving operations does not only require CO monitors on mobile compressors but on all oil-lubricated compressors.

Clause 6.3.3.3 (page 21)

Oil-lubricated compressors shall have:
(e) an in-line carbon monoxide monitor installed after the purifier that includes

i) audible and visual alarms set at 3 ppm.
ii)
iii)
iv)

There are other requirements with respect to the monitor's detection limit, resolution, calibration system, and maximum span gas concentration.

There is no requirement for auto-shutoff because commercial divers on surface supplied air do not want their source of LP air suddenly shut down.

Clause 1.2.2 (page 1)
This standard does not apply to diving operations performed solely for sport or recreation.


I might suggest that the Alberta Underwater Council executive purchase a current copy of the standard to review.

 

[AggieDiver]

Here is my take on PADI's involvement in the lawsuit. PADI trains divers in how to dive safely. As we all know, they are clearly aware of CO as a potential issue in breathing air, so much so that they made changes to their standards to try to protect themselves from liability after the Roatan fatalities. But what else did they do? Did they send out a bulletin to all their trained divers saying "our previous training was inadequate because we told you to smell and taste the air, but CO is odorless and tasteless, so you should test your air for it or get air only from a shop that does"? No, they didn't. At least not to my knowledge. Did they change their training materials to recommend testing? No.

At the same time, PADI tells divers they are training that they should get air from a reputable shop that does proper maintenance on their compressors. Then they also just so happen to have a handy list of dive shops that they publish as affiliates or "5-star" locations. If PADI presents these shops as ones they recommend or approve of in some form or fashion, and they have in their training materials, told people that proper maintenance of the compressors is important, then most casual divers are going to assume PADI is holding the shop to some standard before agreeing to put them on their list. The fact that they removed Sunshine from that list following completion of the Cross investigation reinforces that position.

I don't see this necessarily as an attempt to grab money from PADI...I see it as being something many surviving spouses or parents want after an accident...a chance to make a difference in the future so that nobody else dies from the same cause. In this case, if PADI were to agree to require shops with fill stations to have an inline CO detector with audible alarm and automatic shutdown for overheating before they would list them as an affiliate or 5-star facility, I think it would go a long ways towards making the lawsuit go away. I know PADI doesn't want to take on liability for verification of those things, but there are other ways to do so, such as the suggestion on another thread of requiring a written maintenance schedule and log and/or a outside maintenance conctract.

In any case, I can see a possible scenario where the plaintiff might have PADI included in the suit order to keep the matter in US courts, as well as to try to effect some change in future practices, without necessarily trying to grab a bunch of money from them. Hopefully the folks at PADI will consider some changes as a result and won't just hunker down and stick to what they are doing.

 

[Q1988]

Steve: I agree with you whole heartedly. When it comes right down to it you should always have 100% redundancy. When you operate out of your own home then that is easy but on a trip to Mexico; well all you get is one container with 80 ft3 of air and hopefully nothing else. My next trip in January 2014 I will be taking a 4 gas tester and that includes CO. Redundancy with an extra tank filled by the same operator is not going to be much use. I like to take care of myself as if I was my own dive master and solo diver. I know what I know and I also know what I do not know. Equipment maintenance is my responsibility and that will include farming out things like reg service to someone trained and trustworthy. This is a very unfortunate event but at the least I can cover, not all, but some larger area of my arse.

 

[pensacolaracer]

I love the quote that it's not about the money. Classic.

PADI had to be included in this suit because you sure ain't gonna get blood from the turnip of the dive shop in Mexico.

Anyone who truly believes that scuba class ( whatever class it is) is going to teach you everything you need to know to safely dive, dive, dive has some seriously flawed thinking.




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[Tigerman]

Not everything IS known about diving, so how can it be properly taught?
We have but theories about decompression. Seemingly decent ones, but theire still theory..

 

[pensacolaracer]

Yup. So if you do a deco dive and get bent, make sure to sue PADI. As long as it ain't about the money.

Btw, I have no affiliation with PADI. I think they might have done my Nitrox cert but wouldn't swear on it.


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[herbdb]

Of course its about the money. PADI is included because they are the only possible source of big money. Makes me ill to see this type of lawsuit filed.

 

[flots am]

Yup. So if you do a deco dive and get bent, make sure to sue PADI. As long as it ain't about the money.

PADI is telling divers to check for a tasteless, oderless gas that can be fatal, by tasting and smelling.

I would expect a successful lawsuit.

 

[Wookie]

PADI is telling divers to check for a tasteless, oderless gas that can be fatal, by tasting and smelling.

I would expect a successful lawsuit.

Most CO comes from engine exhaust, which can be tasted or smelled. Otherwise it comes from the atomization of crankcase oil, which can be tasted and smelled. Odor is a CGA standard for air testing. PaADI telling divers to smell and taste the air is reasonable. Not as good as testing, but still reasonable.

 

[swamp diver]

Most CO comes from engine exhaust, which can be tasted or smelled. Otherwise it comes from the atomization of crankcase oil, which can be tasted and smelled. Odor is a CGA standard for air testing. PaADI telling divers to smell and taste the air is reasonable. Not as good as testing, but still reasonable.

It has been shown over and over again that the large majority of CO contamination in compressed breathing air is not from car exhaust but from the burning of compressor oil in overheated compressors, typically in tropical areas with inadequate compressor ventilation and poor oil choice.

The laboratories that you send your quarterly air samples to report a failure rate for CO at 3% which is unacceptable yet the bulk of compressors (> 95%) in the dive industry are electrically driven. On the form you send to the lab in most cases they ask whether it is an electric or internal combustion engine powered compressor. The labs know the CO failure rates by industry (fire service vs. dive) and under what circumstances.

There is typically no odor because the activated charcoal (AC) bed will remove it. Do you recall the Maldives CO fatality where ten people were injured as well? That incident was due to a crack in the spiral intake line with a gas-powered drive where for a week beforehand people were getting headaches and sick. There was no catalyst in the purifier filter which they switched out several times thinking it might be an air quality problem but every time the filter was changed they ensured the air remained odor free but full of CO. Many of the first hand accounts of the survivors recalled smelling the air thinking it was an air quality problem yet the air was odor-free given the fresh AC beds.

So typically dive air with a filter changed out at the appropriate interval will remain odorless when contaminated with CO. The CO level will vary depending on whether one is running a catalyst bed (i.e Hopcalite, Monoxycon) and how much CO-free air was in your tank beforehand at the time of the fill.

The only way to ensure you breathing air is CO-free is to use a portable analyzer.