Calgarian suing diver training organization

[DevonDiver]

It would seem to me that all PADI will have to do is demonstrate that the shop met PADI's stated criteria for their award when it was given.

That'd be interesting...

I can't speak globally... but I don't see a lot of active, or regular, quality assurance by PADI of their IRRA members. How would PADI demonstrate such a thing, when no PADI representative conducted a formal QA audit of the shop (either upon requesting membership, nor on any routine date thereafter...)

Having worked in numerous PADI/IRRA dive centers, I've never seen an 'inspection' by PADI. They asked for photo evidence of the facilities to be submitted with IRRA membership applications. Never saw a Regional Manager or any audit teams nit-picking membership standards en-situ with clip-boards either..

 

[Omisson]

Actually yes. I would think you would be familiar with the case. Assuming you're referring to the publicized case, it was a 79 year old woman not a guy, and the award was around $500K, but then there was an undisclosed settlement after that. She received 3rd degree burns and required years of skin grafts and surgery.

McDonalds intentionally served it's coffee at a temperature that was hotter than anybody else, and continued to do so even though it had been notified about numerous people being severely burned on a regular basis. In fact, the coffee was hot enough that it would cause 3rd degree burns in only a couple of seconds, much faster than most people's ability to react, especially when sitting in a car.

Fresh coffee has just been percolated- to do so required it to be 212 degrees...

This statement would be funny if it weren't dispositive of the schizophrenic American world view... We want our coffee fresh... But not that fresh... Right out of the pot but blow on it to cool it for us first please....

---------- Post added February 13th, 2014 at 04:01 PM ----------

Actually yes. I would think you would be familiar with the case. Assuming you're referring to the publicized case, it was a 79 year old woman not a guy, and the award was around $500K, but then there was an undisclosed settlement after that. She received 3rd degree burns and required years of skin grafts and surgery.

McDonalds intentionally served it's coffee at a temperature that was hotter than anybody else, and continued to do so even though it had been notified about numerous people being severely burned on a regular basis. In fact, the coffee was hot enough that it would cause 3rd degree burns in only a couple of seconds, much faster than most people's ability to react, especially when sitting in a car.

The jury awarded $2.7 million- it was reduced by the judge to $500k because the punitive damages were ridiculous in context, and as it was being appealed -they settled.

 

[NAM001]

The association i was refering to was not with padi. My understanding is that the shop that provided the tank got it filled at another shop and as such the rental shop said they were not responsible for the air they provided to the diver. My position was that if diver gets air from shop a and shop a gets shop b to fill the tank ,,,, shop a can not claim immunity for the bad fill from shop b. when shop a handed the tank to the diver. The diver had a business arrangement with shop a to provide good air to them. Shop a is responsible for any consequence from thier own doing or the doing of others that that acted on thier behalf.

Completely inaccurate analogy- a sub contractor is in PRIVITY with the contractor who is PRIVITY with you.

The obligations are clearly connected.

PADI is NOT in PRIVITY with you when you dive - except during training- and then it is through the PRIVITY of their connection to the instructor to you.

Similarly PADI is not in privity with a dive shop's non- PADI activities (pick up service, regulator repair service, lunch supply). Nor is it responsible for dive boat trips or gear rental UNLESS such takes place during a PADI training event.

This isn't opinion, it's black letter law.

---------- Post added February 12th, 2014 at 06:14 PM ----------




You simply fail to understand the lack of a causal relationship in LAW between training and certifying scuba instructors (scuba training) and providing goods & services (gear rental and air fills)

Absent an industry standard that correlates this (which there isn't) or a written warrantee or contractual obligation (which there isn't) there is no LEGAL duty.

That's not an opinion- it's just the law.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Can I get CLE credit for reading this?

Unless reading the rantings of someone who sounds very much like a 1L gunner at Brooklyn Law counts, I'm guessing not. Then again, most of those PLI online courses...

 

[Ayisha]

My understanding is that the shop that provided the tank got it filled at another shop...

I don't believe that is the case. My understanding is that the shop in question did fill the tank.

 

[NAM001]

I will have to look some more or i may be beh8nd in the findings. here is a link i found so far. Carbon monoxide questioned in Calgarian's diving death - Calgary - CBC News its not too clear but i am sure i found another story saying that the shop was overloaded with tank fill orders that it sent tanks toanother shop to be filled.

I don't believe that is the case. My understanding is that the shop in question did fill the tank.

 

[nimoh]

Fresh coffee has just been percolated- to do so required it to be 212 degrees...

McDonald's does not use percolators, they use drip machines (does not require boiling water), and their reasons for making the coffee too hot were not for freshness but rather so they didn't have to wash the pot (the high minimum temperature kills any bacteria that may be present).

 

[flots am]

McDonald's does not use percolators, they use drip machines (does not require boiling water), and their reasons for making the coffee too hot were not for freshness but rather so they didn't have to wash the pot (the high minimum temperature kills any bacteria that may be present).

They also kept their coffee hotter than anybody else because it increased profits somehow (I don't remember the specifics). While coffee is supposed to be brewed right around 200 degrees, (not 212), it's never much over 170F after passing through the ground coffee, except at McDonalds. In a normal home or restaurant it cools even more when it's poured into the cup, and by the time it makes it to the drinker, might cause a scald, but nothing like the McDonald's incidents, where every step is designed to keep the coffee as hot as possible.

 

[Omisson]

Unless reading the rantings of someone who sounds very much like a 1L gunner at Brooklyn Law counts, I'm guessing not. Then again, most of those PLI online courses...

When I got my JD and was in law school 20 years ago, we didn't have "gunners" - though while I was teaching law after my LLM 15 years ago I certainly ran into the sort amongst my students.

But in the 5 years I spent as a prosecutor afterwards or 15 years in private practice as a trial counsel to everyone from the NYC PBA to the State Court as a referee, I did run into that specious legal troll called the ambulance chaser- who is exemplified by the ability to find liability where none exists at law, who by using emotion can overcome reason and precedent, and who works tirelessly every which way to ensure folks who would have won the Darwin Award twenty years ago, instead get a payday for their own ineptitude.

So let me get this straight:

You go to a FOREIGN country, to a DIVE SHOP you have never used before, and you RENT equipment that is supposed to be your LIFE-SUPPORT in a hostile environment while engaging in a HAZARDOUS activity....

You Probably spent hundreds of dollars on the flight, hundreds more on hotels, eating out, then spent hundreds more renting scuba equipment, getting fills, chartering a dive boat slot... You spent hundreds previously to get trained and certified as a diver, maybe thousands when you add equipment... And in those classes analyzing your gases were recommended and the risks of bad air disclosed.....


and then you didn't check the air for its oxygen content or it's carbon monoxide count....

.... Because you couldn't take the personal initiative to buy a 250 dollar 02 sensor and 300 dollar CO analyzer and check the gas you intended to breathe 80 feet below the surface of the water....

Interesting.


If you drive a car, do you get your brakes checked regularly? Do oil changes? Go to the mechanic when the check engine light comes on.... And heck, that isn't even life-support equipment.... Darwin would be proud.

 

[flots am]

and then you didn't check the air for its oxygen content or it's carbon monoxide count....

.... Because you couldn't take the personal initiative to buy a 250 dollar 02 sensor and 300 dollar CO analyzer and check the gas you intended to breathe 80 feet below the surface of the water....

Interesting.


If you drive a car, do you get your brakes checked regularly? Do oil changes? Go to the mechanic when the check engine light comes on.... And heck, that isn't even life-support equipment.... Darwin would be proud.

If you were trained by PADI, you did as you were taught, and smelled the air to make sure it was OK. And because you were told to only get your air from reputable sources, you went to a "5 Star" Dive Center.

Five stars is even better than the three stars a restaurant can get, so it must be an absolutely safe and trustworthy operation to have five.

The last time I looked, I didn't find any mention of either O2 or CO analyzers in the PADI OW class training materials.