C1 vs T1 GUE

[NothingClever]

Flavor only - not a bullseye answer.

C1 for me because it represents an exponential increase in capability and frequency. CC is two hours from my driveway.

Already a Trimix diver so T1 would improve proficiency but wouldn’t unlock new missions. Big wrecks are four hours from my driveway.

I think the C1 trajectory (C2 + DPV C) is more likely to get me on the kinds of teams and projects that I want with GUE.

 

[kierentec]

I took C1 first because my primary interest is caves, and I live within driving distance of caves, so it was a no-brainer. I still have not taken T1, but had all things been equal, I suppose T1 first might have had benefits later for C1.

In C1 the simulated gas failures felt like a disproportionately large part of the course, given how rare those are relative to the skills you will use in every cave dive. (Yes, yes, when one occurs you had better be ready to handle it, coolly.) It occurred to me how wonderful it would have been to have already been exposed to the skill of handling failures before starting C1. C1 would have been a piece of cake (well, as much as any GUE course could be, I suppose).

It's important to remember that one of the primary reasons for the complex gas failure management is also very much about training divers to slow down, stabilize, and think when problems arise. The most common mistakes when dealing with failures are almost always a result of rushing things (which is often amplified by moderate narcosis). Being able to slow down, stabilize and reference your surroundings, team, and equipment are critical for any task in a cave (running line, navigation, communication, etc), so highlighting the need to do this by creating failures reinforces it over and over instead of just when divers are doing a normal task.

 

[tbone1004]

It's important to remember that one of the primary reasons for the complex gas failure management is also very much about training divers to slow down, stabilize, and think when problems arise. The most common mistakes when dealing with failures are almost always a result of rushing things (which is often amplified by moderate narcosis). Being able to slow down, stabilize and reference your surroundings, team, and equipment are critical for any task in a cave (running line, navigation, communication, etc), so highlighting the need to do this by creating failures reinforces it over and over instead of just when divers are doing a normal task.

CO2 narcosis is a WONDERFUL training aid! and the best part is as instructors it self-manifests

 

[rjack321]

Slight derail, but what is the T1 reel training? It is undoubtedly useful for wrecks etc, is that the intended use case? Something else?

More like actually finding the wreck (at most). The class portion is mostly how to hold it, lay out line over a featureless bottom without it bird's nesting. And serve as a reference to either finding a wreck and/or returning to a shot line in a non-overheard situation. It's not intended to teach any penetration skills whatsoever. In the T1 class it provides some visual reference and forces students to do more than just ascend immediately in the case of a failure.

 

[San Diego Climber]

I did T1 a year before C1 (because of what's available to me locally - the ocean). It was nice having OW bubble management and line basics before C1, but if you have caves closer do that first. Either class will help with the other, and the same advice was given to me, to do whatever you can do more of first.

 

[crofrog]

My opinion is c1 -> t1 is an easier progression because you’re adding things more incrementally from a failure management standpoint.

That being said it doesnt really matter do the one that is the kind of diving you want to do more

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

It depends on your underwater comfort. I never did T1 but had good deco and OC trimix training and plenty of deco dives in a twinset with stages before taking Fundies - C1 and C2. The experience helped significantly to get better value out of the classes because I needed to travel to Mexico.

I don't think it's about specific drills but comfort with your kit and your diving - to let you focus on the new skills, it's really easy to get overwhelmed. The progression in C1 is pretty brutal. So if I were you, I would take T1 or similar deco training, get some dives in and then travel to Mexico. Depending on your location, being able to do a bit of deco opens up so much more diving than Fundies.

 

[steinbil]

My opinion is c1 -> t1 is an easier progression because you’re adding things more incrementally from a failure management standpoint.

How so? The only extra failure in my T1 class was lost deco gas. In my experience the failures were more complex (more total failures in the team per dive, and resource management was a bigger factor), more frequent and more task loading in my C1 class (every dive was an experience dive and had failures, and awareness of the line and surroundings was more emphasized). Maybe our instructors emphasized different things, or maybe I was just so familiar with the environment in my T1 class that it seemed easier.

 

[crofrog]

How so? The only extra failure in my T1 class was lost deco gas. In my experience the failures were more complex (more total failures in the team per dive, and resource management was a bigger factor), more frequent and more task loading in my C1 class (every dive was an experience dive and had failures, and awareness of the line and surroundings was more emphasized). Maybe our instructors emphasized different things, or maybe I was just so familiar with the environment in my T1 class that it seemed easier.

So post fundies here are the new skills for each class:

C1:

• Primary reel
• Cave navigation
• Lost line
• Lost buddy
• Valve failure management
• Cave gas planning

T1:

• Primary reel
• Valve failure management
• Decompression bottle management
• Lost deco gas
• Technical diving gas planning
• Decompression planning

Then for cave 1 all of those skills are done in an environment where you have visual reference, and there is very little time pressure. There is less time pressure to get in the water because no boats, there is less time pressure in the water because you don't need to manage all of that on a schedule.

So if you do cave 1 first, you get to learn how valve failures in an environment where your buoyancy skills will not be as tasked because you have visual references all around, and there is less sense of urgency, and you learn to run the reel, which is one of the primary ways they have to ask load you during the bottom phase of T1.

Then when you go to T1 you're valve failure management is really solid, which opens up a lot of bandwidth for awareness of depth, duration and deco, because the only real new skill you're adding is the deco bottle management, and executing all of those skills midwater relying on depth gauge and team for buoyancy.

Just my thoughts, that being said, I maintain that you should take whatever class you're more interested in doing those dives first.

The cool thing about cave is that it's an entirely new environment, for me tech diving is more of the same. The difference between what it feels like to dive 100ft and what it feels like to dive 170 isn't nearly as much as the difference between open water diving and being 800ft back in a cave.

 

[Lorenzoid]

It's important to remember that one of the primary reasons for the complex gas failure management is also very much about training divers to slow down, stabilize, and think when problems arise. The most common mistakes when dealing with failures are almost always a result of rushing things (which is often amplified by moderate narcosis). Being able to slow down, stabilize and reference your surroundings, team, and equipment are critical for any task in a cave (running line, navigation, communication, etc), so highlighting the need to do this by creating failures reinforces it over and over instead of just when divers are doing a normal task.

Great point. Thank you.

Maybe I just hadn't done enough good valve drills in preparation for C1 (or for that matter, between C1 and C2).