Buying used, a discriminating shopper's primer

[fjpatrum]

Every week or so we have a thread that degenerates into the "Buy new, it's your life support" versus "buy used, the only life support is your brain" discussions.

I fall squarely into the "buy used" camp and my opinions are biased as such. I thought, though, that this might be a good thread for those of us who DO buy used, to discuss what it is we look for when buying and how we make our decisions.

I will preface the rest of my suggestions/comments by saying that I am a big DIY type. I have always been a builder/tinkerer and my hobbies tend to be expensive so I often make my own gear. I have built wood and fiberglass kayaks and skin on frame kayaks. I've always sewn my own outdoor "tech" clothing and made a lot of my own gear for hiking/camping/rock climbing. I am also an electrical engineer by training and an avid wood-worker so I have a fair range of different types of tools already in my shop. All of that tends to make my decisions much easier and I often buy used gear that others will pass up because I know I can (and will) fix it.

One more thing... always research the gear before you pay for it. Read reviews on specific equipment here before you buy. Ask questions about price too. I've bought all my "big ticket" gear used and every single item I read about and asked about here on scubaboard before I bought it. I've been 100% satisfied with every piece of gear. Don't limit yourself to scubaboard, though, research however you can.

Final disclaimer:
I AM NOT A DIVE PRO OR DIVE GEAR TECHNICIAN--TAKE ALL MY COMMENTS IN THIS THREAD AS NON-PROFESSIONAL ADVICE AND ACT ACCORDINGLY. DON'T TAKE MY OPINIONS AS GOSPEL AND HAVE ALL GEAR SERVICED APPROPRIATELY BY RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE YOU TRUST TO KNOW HOW TO DO SO.


So what I look for when buying used SCUBA gear:

Wetsuits: (I don't buy used wetsuits, but if I did, here are the key issues I'd look for in a suit)
Tears- are there any big rips, especially at the cuffs and neck. Small tears in other parts of the suit are easily repaired, but definitely reduce longevity.
Zipper- do the zippers glide smoothly? Do they have full range of motion? If not, is it easily repairable?
Fit- this is the absolute most important factor... if a suit doesn't fit you well, there's no point in paying even a penny for it.
All of the above also apply to vests, hoods, boots and gloves... basically any neoprene product.

Drysuits: (I have no experience with drysuits but here's what I would look at based on what I know now)
All of the same factors as wetsuits. (Especially if the suit is crushed neoprene)
Dumps--do these work and do they function as Overpressure valves (if/when appropriate)
Inflation port-- does this function properly. Any obvious signs of corrosion/wear?
Screw on parts (dump valve covers etc)--- do these rotate easily and do they make a good seal.

BCs:
Fit--obviously fit is one of the most important factors of vest/jacket style BCs. If looking at a BP/W this is less of an issue since it can be adjusted as necessary as long as the plate isn't too long or too short. (That assumes a BP/W with hogarthian set up, rather than one of the "comfort harness" styles.) For comfort harnesses and for vests/jackets/ you want to make sure the shoulder straps hit you in the right place with a tank (if you can) and everything cinches down to where you need it. If a vest rides up on you it makes for an uncomfortable dive. Similarly if it's too tight, you'll regret the choice.
Inflation-- Does it inflate both from LP hose and orally? Does it stay inflated? Does it slowly deflate (over 10-20 minutes or so?) Small leaks can usually be easily repaired, while large leaks obviously take more effort. I have repaired BCs that I've cut 2 inch diameter holes in, though, so nearly anything is possible.
Bladder-- is the bladder supple and flexible or is it dried out and brittle? You want soft/flexible rubber in the bladder. If there is a large build-up of salt crystals and/or the rubber isn't easily malleable, pass it up. A small amount of salt crystals can be rinsed out but a large build-up would generally indicate other possible issues and it dries out the rubber too.
Cover-- the nylon of the cover shouldn't show much fraying. Some people worry about discoloration/fading but it generally doesn't affect functionality much. As with the rubber, dry/crunchy nylon is also bad. This applies to the plastic of the buckles/fasteners as well. Webbing should be flexible and not frayed as well. Do pockets open and shut properly?
Hoses/dumps-- check that the dump valves function and that they work as OPVs (fill the think until they automatically open). Verify the hose isn't dry-rotting and is still supple with no cracks. These can all be replaced, but it should reduce the price if they need replacing.
Integrated weights--there are a lot of weight locking mechanisms. Make sure the locking mechanisms secure the pockets well and then turn the BC horizontal with the pockets pointing down to make sure they stay in place. If the pockets velcro in, make sure the velcro is still good. Also see how difficult the pockets are to remove with weights installed, if you have that option. (Do this with BC on and slightly inflated.)

Mask/Fins/Snorkel:
Masks-- need to fit well. I was taught to put the mask against my face (without putting the strap around my head) and inhale slightly to see if the mask makes a seal. If so, it's a reasonable fit. Other than that, check the strap for elasticity and dryness. Check the skirt around the lens to make sure the lens is seated well and the skirt is still supple.
Fins-- other than fit there's not a lot to look at, in my opinion. If they are heavily scratched up and torn at the edges, they may not be a great buy, but if they still have a solid blade they will work. Again, make sure all rubber is still supple and not cracking or torn in the foot pocket and on straps.
Snorkel-- these should only have holes at the ends, and maybe a purge valve, if that's important to you. Other than that, the size of the mouthpiece is all that matters... they do have different size mouthpieces so find one that you can use comfortably.

Tanks:
If in hydro/viz then size and price are the big issues I consider.
Material: Steel or Aluminum. AL tanks need to have their "born" date verified to make sure shops will still fill them.
Tank body: any obvious signs of corrosion? Any nicks/heavy scratches? If it has a boot on it, remove the boot to check underneath and make sure there's nothing "hiding" there.
Valve: any nicks/heavy scratches on the valves? O-ring look good? DIN or Yoke- is it compatible with the regs you want to use?

Computers:
There is so much personal preference involved with computers the only factors I consider are-- user replaceable battery? Multi-gas? General wear and tear--is the face scratched up, do the buttons press cleanly and scroll through functions appropriately?

Regs:
First stage-- First things to look for are big scratches/dents on the surface of first stages. Also any obvious corrosion. Some minor dents on second stages probably aren't a major issue, but first stages shouldn't have any.
Second stage-- As above, large dents and heavy scratching are indicative of other issues. Light scratches and dents can be dealt with as can most corrosion that is surface only. If there is corrosion (on metal parts) rub some off with your finger to see how deep it penetrates. Plastic parts should be "shiny" and not dried out or brittle. Purge valves should move in and out smoothly.
Hoses-- any obvious dry spots or cracks mean hoses should be replaced. Similarly, casing (the rubber/braided part) should not be separating from the connector barrel (where the casing meats the metal).

These days I generally take a tank with me to buy used regs. If you can connect them to a tank, do they breathe at all? Do purge valves on the second stage work? Do you hear any air leaking from anywhere?

Other big factors to consider when purchasing used regs are whether or not you can get it serviced locally. I have bought 3 regs which I can't get serviced in any of my local shops so I have to service them myself. Not a big issue for me, but should be something you're aware of before you buy. Similarly, if you're into DIY, can you get kits or do you have to find individual parts? I've had to do a combination of both.

Finally with regs, no matter what, get them serviced after purchase. Whether it's DIY or done through a shop/pro all used regs should be serviced.


Gauges:
I expect to test "new to me" gauges against a "known good" for the first run and then either keep or replace. The only thing I worry about there is whether the face is all scratched up or not. Most of the time these come with the regs so I consider them throw-away items anyway.


I won't bother going into accessories because there are too many variations and personal preferences.



So what do other folks look for that I have missed (especially if you have experience with gear I mentioned I don't have experience using)?

 

[herman]

I would add this to regs:
Make sure you can still get parts for the regs you are looking at. There are many manufactures that have gone out of business so no parts are available and of those that are still selling regs, most have made regs that you can no longer get parts for.

 

[Peter_C]

Much of our gear was bought used, or we could have never afforded it. Got a deal in some form or another on 90% of our gear. 80% of it was bought off the internet in one form or another. It has taken years to find the good deals, and I am constantly hunting for items I need...errr want.

As Herman says, knowing what you are buying is the important part. Buying something that doesn't function, or you can't get parts for is a fail. Sometimes stuff isn't as advertised, but hopefully we have some protection, IE: credit cards/paypal. Even for any losses I have seen due to seller bending truths etc. I have still come out ahead on 90% of my purchases, and just write it off as an overall cost.

As a former Auto Tech of course I have most everything needed to repair stuff at home, and enjoy doing so, and will often buy broken stuff for pennies and fix it to use. Those are sometimes the best deals. Even better though is the Craigslist Free section..."If it's FREE, it's for me!" I have been using a freebie lawn mower tractor for years, without putting anything more than dinosaur oil into it. All it took to get running was to charge the battery and add gas. The list of cool stuff goes on an on. Used stuff whether free or purchased can be a great way to save money.

 

[Fishpie]

Don't buy old Jacket BC's with double bladders and/or CO2 emergency inflators, they will leak.
The plastic retainers for cummerbund and waist straps of many older BC's will crumble on first use.
90% of the old Scubapro orange stab jackets will leak.
Old red button TUSA inflators will be stuck closed.
Older blue and red button SeaQuest inflators will crumble.

 

[Sabanist]

I'm not a tech diver and at this point do not aspire to be one. As long as the gear is in good condition and performs the job it was designed for, I'm ok with it. I buy mostly used.

The only thing that I will likely never buy used is a mask. And that is only because fit is so specific and I don't want to invest the time to go check out used masks at several locations. I'll just go to the dive store and get one.

I like the idea of used bc because you never quite know how they will be in the water, so I'd rather invest less and if there is a reason I don't keep it, I didn't drop a house payment on it.

 

[fjpatrum]

Don't buy old Jacket BC's with double bladders and/or CO2 emergency inflators, they will leak.
The plastic retainers for cummerbund and waist straps of many older BC's will crumble on first use.
90% of the old Scubapro orange stab jackets will leak.
Old red button TUSA inflators will be stuck closed.
Older blue and red button SeaQuest inflators will crumble.

I have bought several old jacket BCs with double bladders and 2 of them had CO2 emergency inflators. One of the inflators worked just fine but I removed it anyway. There was a leak in the old one that didn't have a functioning CO2 inflator, but both were very easy to repair and are now 100%. Combined cost was I think about $20 for both BCs.

 

[drbill]

I buy used frequently. Much of the gear I love is no longer manufactured, so the only way to get a replacement is to buy used. I've got enough Mk10/G250s and Scubapro X-Tek (old style) harnesses to last the rest of my life! As a certified divebum, they are usually much more affordable, too. Of course there are things I buy new... generally computers, wetsuits (don't want one someone else has pee'd in!), etc.

 

[Finneli Felwitch]

There are somethings you buy Used and Somethings you buy New.
exposure, fins, mask, snorkel, BC, you can buy used and you don't need to get them serviced. (Though do the visual inspection on them)

Dive computers, Regulators, Rebreathers you could buy used but get them serviced before you dive. (As for rebreathers, I know those old Russian units on Ebay look tempting especially at the price of $500 USD but......)

 

[fjpatrum]

Nonsense, Finneli. All my regs have been bought used, as have my dive computers. If I knew anything about rebreathers or had a desire to dive one, I'd certainly consider buying one used as well, especially given the price of them.

All gear can be bought used. That's the point of this thread- to educate people on what to look for when buying used. There are people uncomfortable buying used equipment, but don't try to imply it's unsafe to do so because of personal bias or preference.

 

[Storker]

Drysuits: (I have no experience with drysuits but here's what I would look at based on what I know now)
All of the same factors as wetsuits. (Especially if the suit is crushed neoprene)
Dumps--do these work and do they function as Overpressure valves (if/when appropriate)
Inflation port-- does this function properly. Any obvious signs of corrosion/wear?
Screw on parts (dump valve covers etc)--- do these rotate easily and do they make a good seal.

Since the primary purpose of a DS is to keep you dry, and seals and zipper are the most common failure points, those should be checked thoroughly.

Wrist and neck seals: Seals have a limited lifetime, both WRT of number of dives and age. How many dives on them? How old are they? Is the neck seal cut to fit (rubber) / adjusted for width (neoprene)? Do you have (or have access to) the necessary competence to evaluate the fit of the neck seal? A too wide neck seal will leak and you'll be wet and miserable. A too tight neck seal is downright dangerous. If you're unsure about the condition of the seals, budget in a replacement (either yourself or at an LDS you trust to do good work) and add that cost to your total cost before you negotiate price. Changing the seals isn't the most daunting DIY project out there, but it requires a little care. There are step-by-step instructions to be found on the net if you search.

A more thorough deal-breaker is a suspect zipper. Zippers too, have a limited lifespan. If the zipper is toast, it can be replaced, but that's quite expensive. The zipper itself is rather expensive, and the replacement takes a little more care than replacing the seals does. Around here, a zipper replacement at a competent LDS (parts + labor) costs about 20-40% of the price of a new DS (depending on whether you look at a tech type trilam suit or a simple neoprene suit).

Also, particularly for a trilam (or other non-elastic material) suit, try the suit on with the undergarments you're going to use. A DS that seems to fit okay-ish with thin summer undergarments or in your normal underwear may bind and restrict movement when you're in full cold weather garb. A neoprene suit is more forgiving in that respect.