Buying Gear at your LDS VS internet!!!

[darylm74]

Sorry, I just get really agitated when people thing that the self employed have it good and are raking in the money. Its not an easy thing to maintain and we dont have the resources of the huge corporations to weather out the long down cycles. If your thinking of right now, sure-buy online. If you want the LDS to be there in the future and to repair the reg/equipt you got online.........put some thought into buyin local.

I believe that those that go out and make it own their own, have a lot of balls. I for one was forced to drop out of college and I taught myself everything I know, little by little and as an Oracle DBA I cover about 15K more than my wife does as an HR director with 2 degrees.........but........

There is something in the US of A that a lot of people keep forgetting about, our economy is based on capitalism. It is a dog eat dog world and if you can't cut it, then you are in the wrong business, or you could go whine to the dems....which to me is just a disgrace. I realize how hard things are, we have ALL had our hard knocks, we have ALL had our problems and we have ALL seen hard times. If you run a good biz, like my LDS does, then you're going to make it. It takes more than product and flashing signs to bring customers in and my LDS has it, but that is all a lot of LDS's have, expensive products that are way overly inflated and flashy signs. If you can't run a business on more than product and service, then don't expect anything.

On a more direct point, put yourself in some of these people's shoes you're trying to sale to. A lot of them have lost jobs, have probably had their salaries cut in half due to the wake of 9/11 and how the market reacted....yada yada yada.....so when it comes to dive paying $500 for a reg online and not diving because you can't afford the $1000 at an LDS, guess what they're going to choose. Think they're going to save for an extra year and a half to cover the extra markup and the fact that the reg is going to go up 10% before they can afford it or take the money they have now and dive now? You guessed it.....................I love my LDS to death but if it was the choice of dive and support Internet or don't dive just to wait and afford everyting at my LDS, guess what I and any other respectable consumer is going to do.......

Members of my LDS write here and as much as I know they don't want to hear me using Internet service, they know I've used it and will continue to use it when need be, but I buy lots of things from there and will continue to buy lots from there, but as I said above, if I can't afford it there and I can elsewhere then I'm going to get it where I can afford it.........so if you can't cut muster, then don't whine about it to us. Once again we ALL have our own problems.......


P.S. MY LDS has a lot of personality, and they don't gouge you on prices. There are several other places in the area that hit me the wrong way and I was strictly internet until I was introduced to my local store....but they also know that I am an internet buyer and they obviously aren't going to ride me about it. Best to get 50-60% of my business than none at all.

 

[Derek S]

On a more direct point, put yourself in some of these people's shoes you're trying to sale to. A lot of them have lost jobs, have probably had their salaries cut in half due to the wake of 9/11 and how the market reacted....

Exactly. I was one of 26 people laid-off, and am working 2 full-time jobs making less than I was working the one.....Don't get me wrong, I'm no pauper, but I'm not rich either...

.....so when it comes to dive paying $500 for a reg online and not diving because you can't afford the $1000 at an LDS, guess what they're going to choose. Think they're going to save for an extra year and a half to cover the extra markup and the fact that the reg is going to go up 10% before they can afford it or take the money they have now and dive now? You guessed it.....................I love my LDS to death but if it was the choice of dive and support Internet or don't dive just to wait and afford everyting at my LDS, guess what I and any other respectable consumer is going to do.......

I decided that no matter what I was going to buy my 1st stage / Regulator only from my LDS. that was the one piece of equipment that had to be bought from a 'brick and mortar'.

But you also bring up an interesting point. There are impulse buys in LDS'es as much as there is in any retail venue. People are a hell of a lot more likely to buy that (insert dive gadget of choice) for $500 than they are for $1000.

if I can't afford it there and I can elsewhere then I'm going to get it where I can afford it.........so if you can't cut muster, then don't whine about it to us. Once again we ALL have our own problems.......

Agreed. When I can purchase 2 of a specific dive computer online for what my LDS sells one for, something is rotten in Denmark.

Best to get 50-60% of my business than none at all.

As I said earlier, I've dropped $3,500 at my LDS in the last month since I first walked in there and asked about getting certified. As far as I'm concerned, if I decide to buy something online because I can get it at half price, I shouldn't catch hell for it. Yes, I am loyal to my LDS, but a 100% markup?

 

[mikswi]

On a more direct point, put yourself in some of these people's shoes you're trying to sale to. A lot of them have lost jobs, have probably had their salaries cut in half due to the wake of 9/11 and how the market reacted....yada yada yada.....so when it comes to dive paying $500 for a reg online and not diving because you can't afford the $1000 at an LDS, guess what they're going to choose. Think they're going to save for an extra year and a half to cover the extra markup and the fact that the reg is going to go up 10% before they can afford it or take the money they have now and dive now? You guessed it.....................I love my LDS to death but if it was the choice of dive and support Internet or don't dive just to wait and afford everyting at my LDS, guess what I and any other respectable consumer is going to do........

Good point. I know this topic has been beaten to death, resurrected and beaten again. I do agree that $500 markup IS excessive and like every other purchase, people shop around. I am also fortunate that my LDS doesnt rape you with pricing. I still would not though buy online but thats just MY opinion. Partly because of the support thing, partly because I am a " have to touch it before I buy it" person and partly because I want someplace to return it to the day it fails.

 

[Derek S]

Q- "Do you think it is right for a retailer to make a $200 + profit on each one of the dive computers it sells, or $150 on each 1st stage/reg combo? How about $150 on the BCD I purchased?"
A- Absolutely! I buy everything through my LDS for 2 reasons. First, his prices are respectable and theres allot of service that goes along with the sale.
Second, I am self employed and I know first hand, what it takes to keep the doors open. Electricity, insurance,rent,inventory,loss leaders and the list goes on.....

Lets just say that an LDS has a store rent of a modest $450.00.(Very modest, ask around) Add insurance of about $150.00 a month, electric @ $45.00, Phone @ $50.00, credit card machine @ $60-80, percentage of sales to credit card company(depends on provider and volume) Heat@ $80.00, sales tax-projected to state, every 3 months, maint on compressor, advertising, workmans comp if they have employees, SSI,FED,FICA,STATE for payroll-shops portion, payments on any factory consignments, fuel/tolls for checkout dives-classes, fuel/time to get stock from suppliers, website fees, ISP fees, and the list goes on.

Based on just those few cursory reacurring fees at approx $1,100.00 thats ONLY $275 a week. So your LDS would have to sell at least 7.3 regs a month to meet expenses based on your figures. Thats about 2 regs a week. Every week, all year long.

Sorry, I just get really agitated when people thing that the self employed have it good and are raking in the money. Its not an easy thing to maintain and we dont have the resources of the huge corporations to weather out the long down cycles. If your thinking of right now, sure-buy online. If you want the LDS to be there in the future and to repair the reg/equipt you got online.........put some thought into buyin local.

I worked retail for many years, I know the spiel about loss leaders, electricity, insurance, worker's comp, ect.

Let me relay again that I am not against LDS'es turning a profit. I like the fact that I can walk into an LDS, plop down my cash, and walk out with my new scuba toy - instant gratification. What I am saying is that after a diver (a new one mind you, I've only been certed for about a month) drops $3,500 in your shop, wouldn't it be smart business sense to say "Hey, I know you're looking at getting that Vytech w/ transmitter, but it is a little expensive for you. Let me drop XYZ off the price."

As I've said, I would prefer to purchase from my LDS. But a 100% markup over LP's internet pricing seems a bit high. Would you purchase say, a brand-new 2005 Mustang GT for $40,000 at the dealership in your town if you knew you could get it for $20,000 at a dealer 10 hours away or through the internet? And don't give me the "That's a much bigger cost difference argument", because it still uses the same 100% markup math.

 

[mikswi]

I worked retail for many years, I know the spiel about loss leaders, electricity, insurance, worker's comp, ect.

Let me relay again that I am not against LDS'es turning a profit. I like the fact that I can walk into an LDS, plop down my cash, and walk out with my new scuba toy - instant gratification. What I am saying is that after a diver (a new one mind you, I've only been certed for about a month) drops $3,500 in your shop, wouldn't it be smart business sense to say "Hey, I know you're looking at getting that Vytech w/ transmitter, but it is a little expensive for you. Let me drop XYZ off the price."

As I've said, I would prefer to purchase from my LDS. But a 100% markup over LP's internet pricing seems a bit high. Would you purchase say, a brand-new 2005 Mustang GT for $40,000 at the dealership in your town if you knew you could get it for $20,000 at a dealer 10 hours away or through the internet? And don't give me the "That's a much bigger cost difference argument", because it still uses the same 100% markup math.

There is no blanket answer just like there is no blanket markup %. Any shop that will not negotiate to a certain degree on price, will not be open for long. All I am suggesting is that one approach the LDS and let them know what your budget is. They already know what thier competition is selling it for. Im not an LDS owner but the same basic principles apply to my business. If a homeowner tells me they can get XYZ for $this amount......I sit them down and explain what they are getting with me and what the other person doesnt offer. MOST times, my price is higher but I guarranty that there are no hidden costs.

Do I think somebody should pay$500 more for an item so they can get a warm fuzzy for supporting the shop? Not at all. Should one do their homework before buying anything-anywhere? Absolutely.

 

[^*^BATMAN^*^]

my LDS is amazing, just a guy and his wife who made their family room a dive shop, he is the only place around, but hase a huge indoor pool for teaching, and is now in the process of building a actuall shop in his backyard...he has little overhead, and he will usually give you a discount if you talk to him a bit. gret guy, i buy all my bike stuff from a simular shop.

 

[darylm74]

I believe the original question was "newbie based" and I believe us regs (regulars, not regulators in this case) jumped on the can of worms that was opened.

The best suggestion that can be made is look at yourself, your financial situation and put on your best consumer hat. I agree, do what you can for your LDS, but if your LDS is going to keep you from diving in the next 3 years because you can't afford a certain piece of equipment or if you have to sacrafice quality to buy at your LDS vs. the Internet then the final decision is on your shoulders to choose correctly for yourself. Do the research on the gear you want and search both at the LDS vs. the Internet and look at the warranties, etc. If you're going to pay a few extra bucks to the LDS, best to stick with them since you do not have to pay for shipping initially, shipping to send back, etc. If the cost is that great of a difference on that regulator then might want to either look for a regulator that is just as good but that doesn't ride so hard on the name, or look to the internet.

I will restate my example....I have 2 things, well now 3 on my list. A SeaDoo Scooter, a Sea&Sea Camera and a Suunto computer/compass with disconnect. I am going to pay $50 more on the scooter at my LDS so they are going to get my business and the difference in the camera is in the $30-$40 range so that is going to my LDS. The difference in the Suunto computer is abour $300-$500 difference, based on extras, so unless I get another great 25%+ off coupon, I am going to go Internet with that. When all said and done, the LDS is going to walk away with about $900 of my hard earned dollars and the Internet is going to get about $750. You just gotta be a smart consumer, scuba gear is no different than a new car or anything else. Think about it for a month or two before you buy.......talk to your LDS(s) and look on the internet and get what you think fits your pocketbook.

I'm gonna say right now, and I am sorry I haven't said before. Splash Water Sports in Pittsburgh is my store. I was fed up with LDS shops in my area until my father-in-law told me about their shop. They are the greatest guys and I believe I've gotten to know both 2 of the owners and at least one of the employees quite well. They have personality, have fun as well as have great, quick service and decent prices. This is what I mean by more than flashing signs and full service. They know how to get to know people and as long as they give me a decent price on a product, they are going to get my clams. Just hope the shop you deal with is as great as these guys are. The other shops in my area had me wanting to strangle them and really gave LDS shops a bad name.

Happy shopping.....

 

[michaelaz]

darylm74,

You have said everything much better than I was going to(Im glad I closed the window yesterday and did not reply)

I can only hope owners of LDS are lurking and read this thread as I agree 100% with it.

I did buy my suit,mask,fins,shoes and some impulse items via my LDS but he is in a pissing contest with scubapro and wont carry them because he says they want to be the dominate brand in his shop (El Mar Diving in Mesa,AZ) I dont know either way but like you said if you can save $500,thats 1/2 a trip to Cozumel (or what I spent diving a week in Maui) its not that hard of a decision.

 

[ThatsMe]

Well i think that we should suport LDS. I just paid $100 more for a BC than i would have on the internet. But i wil be buying lights and knives and stuff on the net. I plan to purchas my reg at LDS too.

 

[Derek S]

Well i think that we should suport LDS. I just paid $100 more for a BC than i would have on the internet. But i wil be buying lights and knives and stuff on the net. I plan to purchas my reg at LDS too.

I do support my LDS. $100 more for a BCD is reasonable. $500+ more for a Vytech or $300+ more for a underwater digital camera, however, is not.

When it comes to the point that I am considering going with a completely different dive computer based on price because I want to keep the factory warranty, something just isn't right.