Buying Gear at your LDS VS internet!!!

[Brian Gilpin]

MY LDS is having a tent sale in two wks. They are going to sell tanks with a lifetime airfill card. Does this make any sense???? Shouldn't they be using the air fills as a source of income???

Dont worry they will get plenty of impulse purchases by getting people in the door. Rarely will I leave a shop with just a fill.

 

[idratherbediving]

i have a very good relationship with my lds. my first buy was a drysuit which was the cheapest dui makes and i was not at all pressured to buy a more expensive one. my shop listened to my needs and suggested one that works best for me. money wasnt really an issue either. i was even given the class for it at a really good price and my buddy and i were given the class during a week night. my point is that all dive shops are not equal and it really does pay to find one with the right attitude. every time i go to my lds i am always greeted with a smile and warm welcome. usually i go there just to ask questions about different equipment they dont sell and rig configuration ideas. i think it is this attitude that keeps myself and everyone else who goes there loyal. most times i compare prices with leisurepro and they come close without me haggeling. even if they charge me more, i dont mind because of their great service to me as a fellow diver not as a customer to make money from.

 

[Derek S]

I just don't understand it. I've never claimed to be an economics guru, but to me it seems there is simple math at hand here.

Manufacturer ABC makes the 123 dive computer. It sells said computer for $500 (mathematical argument sake) to everyone it sells to. Now, an e-tailer such as LP may have it for sale at a cost of $525. An LDS may have it in their display case for $800. Other than the warranty issues, why is the LDS allowed to make a $275 profit over LP?

I think manufacturers (and to a lesser extent LDS'es) are kinda shooting themselves in the foot. If they allowed all sellers (regardless of retail/e-tail/whatever) to sell at a lower price and included a full manufacturer's warranty, they would most likely sell more of the product in question (thus making more profit) and keeping divers loyal to certain brands/LDS'es.

Case in point: I can go to LP and purchase a Suunto Vytech with the wireless transmitter included for $50 more than my LDS is charging for just the Vytech itself. If I do purchase the whole Vytech/IR transmitter setup from my LDS, it'll cost me nearly $400 more than what LP is charging for the whole setup. Almost makes a manufacturer's warranty worthless, because if the transmitter or the Vytech cr@ps out on me, I can replace either one with the money I saved buying it at LP instead of my LDS.

Another case in point: One of the other LDS'es in my area is carrying an Oceanic VT Pro PDC with wireless transmitter. One can clearly see on the price tag that an amount of $100 more was once was written down and subsequentlly scribbled over to put the new price of $100 cheaper on it. You can't tell me that they don't have room to haggle there.

Don't get me wrong. I like my LDS. I've supported them to the tune of $3.5K-ish over the course of the last month since I first walked in asking questions about getting OW certified. I do have to admit that it is a bit disheartening to think that I've dropped that much cash and still have a bunch more to go if I buy the rest of my gear from them.

If my LDS sells me the Vytech at the same (or close to the) price LP is offering it at, I'm going to turn around and spend the money saved right there at the LDS anyway, so what do they have to lose?

 

[JD.Gattis]

When someone dies because of recall of a "gray" market good that the manufacturer wouldn't allow to be registered, and thus notified of the recall, will equal huge civil suit award against said manufactorer.

These "gray" market sellers are buying their goods from someplace, and it's not retail. This means somehow, they are getting them from the manufactorer, unless we are to believe they all somehow fell off the back of the truck and are stolen items, and the manufactorer lost the serial numbers to track them.

Xanthro

True

 

[JD.Gattis]

But where will everyone get air if their Local Dive Shop shuts down due to not profitable for them to stay open because internet sites under sell them.

Internet sites sell 100% more volume and can charge less. Local shops have to charge more cause they sell less.

I guess you can ship your tanks to leisure pro to get fills?

 

[Derek S]

But where will everyone get air if their Local Dive Shop shuts down due to not profitable for them to stay open because internet sites under sell them.

Internet sites sell 100% more volume and can charge less. Local shops have to charge more cause they sell less.

I guess you can ship your tanks to leisure pro to get fills?

I understand that LDS'es need to remain profitable to stay in business, but when I sit down and figure out what I've bought at my LDS and what it would have cost me buying it online, I could have afforded 2 rigs, one rec and one tech for the same cost.

Do you think it is right for a retailer to make a $200 + profit on each one of the dive computers it sells, or $150 on each 1st stage/reg combo? How about $150 on the BCD I purchased?

As I said earlier, I support my LDS. If I were that much of a jerk, I'd just buy my own compressor and fill my own tanks (I have friends who have their own, so if push came to shove, getting air/nitrox probably wouldn't be an issue), but for the ease of doing so and support of my LDS I get them filled there.

 

[scubapro50]

my first job out of colledge was working in the sporting goods department at Woolco Department Stores in Pasadena ......... we carried HEALTHWAYS brand scuba equipment and yes you could buy a full set without a c-card. You know what happened to both companies ..... gone. Back in the late 60's the two biggest distributors of diving equipment were mailorder companies BERRY SCUBA and CENTRAL SKIN DIVERS. They were so good that many dive shops stop selling SKIN DIVER Magazine because of there ads. You could get anything from those guys.....in fact a lot of dive shops dropped the U.S. Divers brand because the mailorder places were undercutting them so bad. And as history has proven again .... SKIN DIVER MAGAZINE .... gone ! I probably seen three dozen good dive shops close in the past years because they couldn't make a profit. One day I hope we don't remember our LDS the same way we do drive-in movies ....... had a good time there but they are gone and almost forgotten.

 

[darylm74]

I think most people ride the fence when it comes to LDS vs. Internet. I have bought a ton of stuff off the internet, and though I have not bought any of my high priced items from my LDS, all the smaller items I have bought there have probably added up to a pretty penny. I think the issue is really a dead horse. It has been discussed numerous times and people are going to do what they are going to do. I'm going to continue to support both my LDS, and my wallet when need be. Right now I want a scooter and a Suunto Vyper. I can purchase the scooter for about $125 less online but the Vyper is going to cost me about $500 less online. I'll probably just buy the Vyper from Leisurepro and buy the scooter from my LDS. That way I suppor them as much as I can but not be gouged when I don't think I should from my pocket book. Who knows, I might get a good deal from my LDS on it. They have sales from time to time and if I had the money today I had a 25% off coupon on anything in the store. Those deals will happen again and I will probably continue to do as much dealing with the local guys as possible. Otherwise I will buy from the internet when I see fit. I've made good friends with one of the owners and one of the guys who work at the store and they know what I do. The thing is I am in there buying stuff at least a couple times a week and I don't think they are going to hassle me too much if I don't spend all my dough there. They'll get it when I can give it and hell if I had the money to spend like some people obviously do, I'd probably give it to all of them too. I'll probably keep supporting my LDS as long as scary kerry doesn't hit the white house and raise my taxes to support the crack dealers......I think things will just be fine.

 

[mikswi]

I understand that LDS'es need to remain profitable to stay in business, but when I sit down and figure out what I've bought at my LDS and what it would have cost me buying it online, I could have afforded 2 rigs, one rec and one tech for the same cost.

Do you think it is right for a retailer to make a $200 + profit on each one of the dive computers it sells, or $150 on each 1st stage/reg combo? How about $150 on the BCD I purchased?

As I said earlier, I support my LDS. If I were that much of a jerk, I'd just buy my own compressor and fill my own tanks (I have friends who have their own, so if push came to shove, getting air/nitrox probably wouldn't be an issue), but for the ease of doing so and support of my LDS I get them filled there.

Q- "Do you think it is right for a retailer to make a $200 + profit on each one of the dive computers it sells, or $150 on each 1st stage/reg combo? How about $150 on the BCD I purchased?"

A- Absolutely! I buy everything through my LDS for 2 reasons. First, his prices are respectable and theres allot of service that goes along with the sale.
Second, I am self employed and I know first hand, what it takes to keep the doors open. Electricity, insurance,rent,inventory,loss leaders and the list goes on.....

Lets just say that an LDS has a store rent of a modest $450.00.(Very modest, ask around) Add insurance of about $150.00 a month, electric @ $45.00, Phone @ $50.00, credit card machine @ $60-80, percentage of sales to credit card company(depends on provider and volume) Heat@ $80.00, sales tax-projected to state, every 3 months, maint on compressor, advertising, workmans comp if they have employees, SSI,FED,FICA,STATE for payroll-shops portion, payments on any factory consignments, fuel/tolls for checkout dives-classes, fuel/time to get stock from suppliers, website fees, ISP fees, and the list goes on.

Based on just those few cursory reacurring fees at approx $1,100.00 thats ONLY $275 a week. So your LDS would have to sell at least 7.3 regs a month to meet expenses based on your figures. Thats about 2 regs a week. Every week, all year long.

Sorry, I just get really agitated when people think that the self employed have it good and are raking in the money. Its not an easy thing to maintain and we dont have the resources of the huge corporations to weather out the long down cycles. If your thinking of right now, sure-buy online. If you want the LDS to be there in the future and to repair the reg/equipt you got online.........put some thought into buyin local.

 

[scubasean]

nm