Buying gear, 1st time: Please offer feedback on my setup

[AndrewRG]

I'm new to scuba diving, but committed enough that I'm ready to buy equipment. I'm planning on doing most of my diving for the next few years in Pacific water. I'll be doing recreational diving initially, but I have interest in cave diving, night diving, and research diving in the future.

After some research and a visit to my local dive shop (Eco Dive Center in Los Angeles) here is what I'm planning on purchasing. Please offer your feedback.

BC: The Scubapro Knighthawk, $604
I want a back inflate BC, and I've heard good things. The dive shop offered to include a Scubapro Air2 and a knife with purchase.

Regulator: I'm not sold on any single model, but I like the Zeagle Envoy Deluxe ($370) and the Cressi MC5 Eclipse ($380).
They're well rated and they have adjustable airflow. The Cressi is small, but doesn't have as many hose attachments.

Suit: Proquad full body with hood, 7 mm. $350

Gauge: Analog depth/pressure gauge with compass. I don't remember the brand, $200

Fins: I'd like blade, but I don't have a strong preference after that. ~ $60

Mask: Whatever fits at the store, ~ $60

Snorkel: Semi-dry snorkel with purge, $22

Gloves: Whatever fits, $35

Boots: Soft sole, whatever fits, $40

Octo: Getting an Air2 instead and, complementary with BC

Knife: Complementary with BC

Tank: ECO rents tanks for $12, but if you buy they offer free fill for the life of the tank. I'm not sure if I should buy or rent.

Weights: Whatever works with the BC, ~ $20

Total cost: ~ $1,760

The salesman agreed that discounts for a larger purchase can be worked out as well.
With this in mind, it might make sense to buy a tank as well, which would roll me up to around $2,000 before any discount.

Any items I'm forgetting? Any substitutions that should be made, or comments on this particular dive shop? Choices were made with costs in mind, so if anything here seems extraneous, high-end, or indulgent, let me know.

 

[zamburinha]

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with your choices. However, given your stated interest in cave diving in the future, you might want to consider a rig that more closely approximates what most cave divers use, and as a side benefit, can probably be assembled for a cheaper price than what you are considering.

A few points:
-The BC. You might want to consider a backplate + wing combination instead of a back inflate BCD.
-For the gauge and compass. Instead of carrying a console, many people in cave diving carry an analog pressure gauge which is clipped to a d-ring in the BC and compass goes on the wrist.
-There are a ton of threads about the pros and cons of Air2. Whatever you think of them, it is not common to see them in more technical/cave setups and you might find very little use for it in the future.

It comes down to how quickly you think you would want to pursue cave diving and how happy you are with reconfiguring things as your needs change.

 

[Bogie]

There is a lot of good used gear. Try before you buy. When you buy new and don't like it you loose half your money when you resell it, so fitting your needs to the gear choice should be priority

If you're interested in tech or cave diving look at the DIR set up. GUE has a great site explaining equipment. Back plate and wing is the standard. I don't recommend Air2. Just try to breath in it while sharing air. For real air sharing you need an octo. Cave and tech use a 7-foot hose.

I made mistakes buying gear so here are some suggestions.

1. Exposure suit is number on. If it is hard to get in and out of it makes it a pain. Try on a bunch of makes and models from different shops. If they are loose you will be cold, if they are too tight on chest or strangle your neck they can restrict breathing. Hooded ones can be warmer but I hate being on the surface pulling the integrated hood back and have it strangle me. I dive dry but that is expensive. A thigh pocket is the most useful pocket you will ever use. BC pockets are worthless because they are hard to see, get to, and inefficient to use.

2. Mask is very important. Get a low volume black. They are so easy to clear. I have a Tilos Excel, low volume, and best visibility. Atomic and all the manufactures have low volume, frameless, masks. I went through the color phase (I have 3 masks that I will sell you cheap in perfect shape).

3. BC. Get a back inflate. Zeagle Ranger or Dive Rite are good. Back Plate and wing set up is the best for diving. They attach to your body more and put you in the proper diving position. You can customize them any way you want. If you go into tech or cave, you WILL be buying one. If you buy one now you will save $300 because you will be selling your used knighthawk at half price. They can cost less than the $604 that you are spending on the knighthawk. Lots of brands they are all good (halcyon, dive rite, DSS, Hollis etc). Get a doughnut wing because they vent the best.

4. Regulator. At first you can get anything that works. Make sure you get a brand that is easily serviceable. Aqualung Legend LX Supreme (I own this) and ScubaPro Mk25/s600 are great and easy to get serviced. Lots of great regulators out there. I would buy a higher end model used than buy a lower end new. Just make sure that it has been serviced and is name brand. You’ll notice the difference when you go deep or cold. Get a separate octo not Air2.

5. Fins. I have gone through several. It is a personal choice. Splits are easier on joints and I find I use less energy but they don't have the maneuverability of paddle. ScubaPro Jets are what the tech divers use with frog kicks, back kicks and helicopter turns. I have Apollo Splits and love them but have not found the right paddle for photography diving where I could use some additional maneuverability with comfort. Split fins: easier on joints and muscles, not great for maneuvering. Paddle fins: better for maneuverability but harder on joints and muscles (cramps). If you are young and strong paddles are great. Spring straps are a must. (I have some Hollis fins with spring straps that I will sell you at half price of new ones)

6. Did not mention computer. Tech and cave use analog pressure gauge, bottom timer, watch, and wrist compass. They may use additional computer/s for ease and back up.
I have a ProPlus 2 with compass (I use my wrist compass) has lots of great features and is rock solid. It has a big display and is easy to read and I can down load into computer. There are many great computers and come either consul or wrist with or without air integration. You can get them used and save a lot of money. I recommend a wrist compass Suunto SK7 with bungee. It's the best.

Other stuff:
Gloves: It DOES matter a lot what gloves you get. If you get 7 mil clumsy ones with straps, it is like wearing boxing gloves trying to use your stuff underwater and donning gear. Get semi-dry 4 mil "Deep Sea Dry Comfort Gloves". They are warm as any 7 mil glove and very flexible and are not bulky. Best that I have found period. No wrist straps, they are a pain.

Snorkel: I don't use one but anyone will work. Simpler the better.

Boots: Make sure they fit and make sure they fit your fins.
Knife: Get a small one, with a sheath, easy to take out, and easy to attach anywhere. Don't get a big machete that you strap to you're leg. Looks macho but is a total waste.

Tanks: Don't buy unless you are going to dive a lot. Cheaper and easier to rent. If you must buy AL 80s, buy them used, you can get them half price. If you do dive a lot you will be buying steel tanks. Best for buoyancy. Steel hp100s are very popular.

Hope this helps.

Happy diving

 

[ReefHound]

Are you even certified yet? I ask because most divers buy mask/fins/snorkel/boots for their certification class. If you haven't even taken basic OW yet then put the gear purchase on ice (except mask/fins/snorkel/boots) until you determine for sure that this is really for you.

 

[Selchie in LB]

Shop around! In the LA area you have unlimited options. I would spend some time to visit different shops. Remember everyone has an opinion. Good shops will tell you why gear is better for different environments. They won't sell you something just to sell you something.

Bogie has some great suggestions. You cannot afford to think that a mask or gloves are no big deal. They are! Fins too! Read the forums and hang out with other divers. I have changed a lot of my ideas about dive gear. If I could do it all over again:
1) Definitely BP/W (back plate and wing set up). I got to try one last week and it was great. I probably transitioned so smoothly because I did start with a back inflate BCD.
2) Mask low volume and black. Black really does make a difference. Clear won't interfere with your diving, but there is a reason many divers chose black.
3) I would have gone with ScubaPro split fins. More money up front, but saved money in the long run because now I have a pair of Aqualung blades that sit in the closet. A friend steered me wrong there (some times you shouldn't lister to your friends) No matter which fins you purchase spring straps are a must for CA because all the beach entry dive sites.
4) I have the so called semi-dry suit and love it. I have gotten good use from it and probably will until I get into a dry suit. I took a little time to get used to zipping it up across the front, but most folks have the same problem with back zips and ask for help. The best part is not having to mess with trying to tuck in a hood.
5) Gloves need to keep your hands warm and not be a pain. I actually like my strapped gloves, but that is because the wet suit sleeves are a little short on me. Being able to strap them tight helps eliminate constant exchange of water.
6) I wish I had gone with a stiffer pair of boots. Why? Because of all the beach entries. Soft soles are fine when boat diving, but having sure feet under you makes for easier entry and exits from shifting sands.
7) Regulators I purchased mine from said friend. At least that wasn't a total loss. But you can find steals on the classifieds here. You have to be quick, but it will save you lots. Again, ScubaPro comes up a lot. But do your homework and read reviews and the board here.

Good Luck to you

 

[Selchie in LB]

Shop around! In the LA area you have unlimited options. I would spend some time to visit different shops. Remember everyone has an opinion. Good shops will tell you why gear is better for different environments. They won't sell you something just to sell you something.

Bogie has some great suggestions. You cannot afford to think that a mask or gloves are no big deal. They are! Fins too! Read the forums and hang out with other divers. I have changed a lot of my ideas about dive gear. If I could do it all over again:
1) Definitely BP/W (back plate and wing set up). I got to try one last week and it was great. I probably transitioned so smoothly because I did start with a back inflate BCD.
2) Mask low volume and black. Black really does make a difference. Clear won't interfere with your diving, but there is a reason many divers chose black.
3) I would have gone with ScubaPro split fins. More money up front, but saved money in the long run because now I have a pair of Aqualung blades that sit in the closet. A friend steered me wrong there (some times you shouldn't lister to your friends) No matter which fins you purchase spring straps are a must for CA because all the beach entry dive sites.
4) I have the so called semi-dry suit and love it. I have gotten good use from it and probably will until I get into a dry suit. I took a little time to get used to zipping it up across the front, but most folks have the same problem with back zips and ask for help. The best part is not having to mess with trying to tuck in a hood.
5) Gloves need to keep your hands warm and not be a pain. I actually like my strapped gloves, but that is because the wet suit sleeves are a little short on me. Being able to strap them tight helps eliminate constant exchange of water.
6) I wish I had gone with a stiffer pair of boots. Why? Because of all the beach entries. Soft soles are fine when boat diving, but having sure feet under you makes for easier entry and exits from shifting sands.
7) Regulators I purchased mine from said friend. At least that wasn't a total loss. But you can find steals on the classifieds here. You have to be quick, but it will save you lots. Again, ScubaPro comes up a lot. But do your homework and read reviews and the board here.

Good Luck to you

 

[AndrewRG]

There is an abundance of good advice here.

I didn't realize that back-plate/wing was so different from back inflate: I just thought that BP/W was the equivalent but for hard core technical divers. If I get a BP/W, then can I get it as a package, or do I have to shop for a back plate, a bladder, a weight belt, and a tank strap?

I do have an OW certification, I don't have fins or a mask yet.

Also, I didn't realize that regulators and BCs could be bought used. I assumed it was like climbing equipment. Keep it coming, I'm taking lots of notes.

 

[Selchie in LB]

You can get bp/w set ups in a package. A good feature of a bp is that you can change wings. Also, if you puncture your bladder you only have to replace the bladder, not the whole rig unlike a BCD. If you puncture your BCD, you buy a new BCD.

You can purchase most any gear used. Shops, on-line stores, Craigslist, ebay, scubaboard etc. I tend to trust folks on scubaboard more so than ebay or craigslist. It is your level of comfortability where and who you choose. Most sellers on the board will tell you up front whether a regulator has been serviced recently and will also add have checked by your dive shop to verify. Just like the regulator I purchased from a friend. Trust but verify!

 

[Mike Boswell]

Like many divers, I have replaced a lot of the gear that I bought when I started. My advice is to go with a Oxycheq or Dive Rite BP/W, steel tanks, a black frameless low-volume mask, paddle fins (SP jets, AL Rockets, etc.) with spring straps, Scubapro or Aqualung mid-range regulator, and an air-integrated computer. Get a 7-mil wetsuit that fits well and is easy to get into. If you have to, buy a custom wetsuit. Buy as much used stuff as you can - this saves you about half the cost.

Regarding used gear, beware buying older used aluminum tanks. Be sure any regulator you buy can be serviced by your local shop. Have critical used items like BC's, regs, tanks, etc. serviced before you use them.

 

[AndrewRG]

I bought my BC.

Between the last time I posted and now, I went to another dive shop in Hollywood, and then back to the first one to look at backplate wing BCs. They had an OMS 10 lb steel backplate with a continuous weave harness, a red 32 lb bladder, and two weight pockets. It had been worn in a pool once or something, and was $350.

I was hesitant, but figured that its modular, so even if there is something I don't like about it, at the price its hard to imagine regretting it. I hope everyone else agrees. I'm really excited to try it out.