Buying full setup / Thoughts?

[LandonL]

I’d say that there’s more chance of Apeks (with a popular brand name, fairly streamlined reg lineup, widespread dealer lineup, long-ish history) being around in 20 years, than there is Deep 6 or other smaller DTC brands.

Point of note - We are not only DTC, we are also B2B and have dealers. Also, my debt to EBITDA ratio isn't greater than 14:1, so I like our odds a bit better than AL/Apeks now.

The whole 'but what if they aren't around in 10 years' thing is just another FUD tactic.

One thing that has me a bit off the Deep6 is I cant find really any claims about water temperature. It has the bottom port and swivel like you are suggesting.

Many have already said that it is similar to the others we're discussing, but is the deep6 signature capable of mid 30s?

Also can't see any manufacturer claims about nitrox % supported out of the box

Our regs are EN250 certified, they are fine for cold water, and Nitrox. We don't even offer non-viton (O2) service kits. Our regs are used by some of the most demanding divers in the world, in caves, under ice, and greater than 350ft down. You won't have issues.

The only more rigorous certification I am aware of is NORSOK U-101.

It would be expense to do yet another certification, which isn't really necessary. The Norwegian Petroleum Industry (NORSOK) isn't really our target market. lol

As to Nitrox capability, there is this statement in the Deep 6 Signature manual, "The Deep6 Signature regulator set is delivered oxygen clean and ready for pure oxygen use up to 2400 psi." Obviously if it can handle 100% O2 from the factory, it will be fine with recreational Nitrox which tops out at 40%.

This is kind of a me thing. In medicine we don't use oxygen at pressures as high as we do in diving, and no diving regulators are actually engineered for oxygen use. Our statement merely reflects the reality of the situation. As you mentioned, the regs are perfectly fine for Nitrox use out of the box.

i believe the Deep6 Signature 2nd stage has a Teflon coated metal air barrel. Given that and the sealed diaphragm 1st stage, I would expect it to be as good in cold water as pretty much any of the other regs that have been discussed here.

Chrome, TiCN PVD, and Teflon coated brass barrel.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

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[lowwall]

It would be expense to do yet another certification, which isn't really necessary. The Norwegian Petroleum Industry (NORSOK) isn't really our target market. lol

Agreed, 200m on a mix of 3% O2 97% He isn't particularly relevant to most scuba divers. I think Mares did it with so many of their regs because they own an ANSTI machine and thus the additional costs to test and tweak were reasonable.

But I am curious why you didn't certify to EN250A (which is the same requirements as EN250 except the first stage has to provide gas to 2 second stages at the same time). Not many manufacturers do so maybe it's very difficult or very expensive? Or is it just kind of pointless because the required flow rates aren't realistic.

 

[eelnoraa]

Hey There,

Been lurking a bunch, learning what I can. I'm a fairly new diver looking to take the plunge and buy a full setup rather then using different rental gear all the time, which is getting a bit annoying when it comes to by buoyancy/trim and gear familiarity growth. Wanted to get your thoughts of the planned setup below, I know of course some things will be personal preference.

I will primarily be diving in the great lakes region, so cold fresh water, but I do dive in the warmer Caribbean waters about once or twice a year as well. I have some plans to dive in places like Egypt/Indonesian as well in the future. After many more dives and time in my own gear setup I might also entertain going down the tec path. (current certs: AOW, Nitrox, Drysuit, Wreck and Deep. about 50 dives, half fresh cold water, half Caribbean warm water. 20 dives in the drysuit (rental, I got the rental for free))

Potential Setup:
Regulator: Atomic M1 (long hose config)
Octo: M1 Octo (on a necklace)
Likely will do air integration when I switch computers to a perdix (currently have a peregrine)

BP&W: Hollis ST System (With steel plate), likely will do the integrated weight pockets for simplicity as well, not a huge fan of weight belts but I'd be open to trying them more

Dry Suit: DUI Cortez (the FLX extreme seems like an overall better buy, but looking to keep the dry suit cost a bit lower then that). I have explorered a few others options like seaskin,bare and hollis but the DUI seems like a good balance of quality and affordability. Probably will do a dry glove system, but that might be a future purchase.

Already own mask and jet fins

Since I have been diving deep and cold quite a bit this summer in Tobermory Ontario, and likely will continue to do so, I'm also highly considering a slung 40 pony as well for redundancy incase of a failure at depth for piece of mind, but also because I potentially will need one for a deco bottle in the future anyway, so might as well get some practice in diving with an additional bottle). Before anyone comments about that not being needed if following a plan and proper buddy procedures , etc, i get that. For me it would be a conservative approach to mitigate risk, especially as I build experience and also to practice with a slung bottle.

You all are a wealth of information and experience so would love to hear your thoughts.

If you like AA brand, I would say get Z2. It is much less expansive, breath exactly the same. M1 is great for high O2 content situation, but do you need it? As for sealing, you can seal any AA 1st stage, but it is an expansive procedure, and needed to be done at each service. It is probably additional $40-$50 just for the sealing procedure. If sealing is important, and you constantly dive in mid 30F water, maybe a sealed diaphragm model is better. I see many good suggestion already, so I won't repeat. But I do want to point out @Zef's suggestion, if you travel, get a brand that can be serviced easily around the globe.

For 2nd stage, get a model with brass inlet tube. You need mass and good thermal conductivity. Metal casing is even better. Basically you want the cold from expanding gas to dissipate into water as soon as possible. So don't get one with plastic for sure, this is the worst for cold water. Even Titanium isn't the best choice for cold.

I would also suggest, the bottom port and LP port swivel is not very important for single tank setup. The 1st stage swivel will be held at fixed place more or less by the inflator hose and dry suit hose. If you don't have, you will never know. The only time it really help a bit is when you setup your rig, it gives you a bit of play to get thing in place.

Don't get Hollis stuff. It is a very average quality stuffs and with premium price tag. If you get Hollis, might as well get Halcyon. But from practical purpose, DGX setup is great, as many already suggested. And since you are in great lake and wear drysuit, ditch all the padding, saving some money as well.

 

[LandonL]

But I am curious why you didn't certify to EN250A (which is the same requirements as EN250 except the first stage has to provide gas to 2 second stages at the same time).

EN250A wasn't available at the time. I am sure it would be fine if re-evaluated.

Not many manufacturers do so maybe it's very difficult or very expensive? Or is it just kind of pointless because the required flow rates aren't realistic.

Combination of many reasons like what you touched on above. Testing is insanely expensive and I try not to waste money needlessly. Maybe I should consider a 14:1 debt ratio and we could go for Norsok

Hope you are well.

 

[cerich]

Agreed, 200m on a mix of 3% O2 97% He isn't particularly relevant to most scuba divers. I think Mares did it with so many of their regs because they own an ANSTI machine and thus the additional costs to test and tweak were reasonable.

But I am curious why you didn't certify to EN250A (which is the same requirements as EN250 except the first stage has to provide gas to 2 second stages at the same time). Not many manufacturers do so maybe it's very difficult or very expensive? Or is it just kind of pointless because the required flow rates aren't realistic.

ANTSI's with ability to test 2 second stage last I checked only one certifying body lab has, and they take what is an expensive process at all the certifying labs to truly wondering why not buy a new Porsche instead if you have that cash not doing anything?
It wasn't our regs ability to pass, it was just ROI calculation and for what exactly?

 

[Luke99]

Point of note - We are not only DTC, we are also B2B and have dealers. Also, my debt to EBITDA ratio isn't greater than 14:1, so I like our odds a bit better than AL/Apeks now.

The whole 'but what if they aren't around in 10 years' thing is just another FUD tactic.



Our regs are EN250 certified, they are fine for cold water, and Nitrox. We don't even offer non-viton (O2) service kits. Our regs are used by some of the most demanding divers in the world, in caves, under ice, and greater than 350ft down. You won't have issues.



It would be expense to do yet another certification, which isn't really necessary. The Norwegian Petroleum Industry (NORSOK) isn't really our target market. lol



This is kind of a me thing. In medicine we don't use oxygen at pressures as high as we do in diving, and no diving regulators are actually engineered for oxygen use. Our statement merely reflects the reality of the situation. As you mentioned, the regs are perfectly fine for Nitrox use out of the box.



Chrome, TiCN PVD, and Teflon coated brass barrel.

Do you have any dealers in Ontario or Canada in general? Any that service?

Many of the products on your site seem OOS, do you have inventory coming in soon?