Buying a 5 mpixel instead of 8 to save

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divebrasil

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Hi Guys,
I read a lot here great things about the Canon S80 and the Oly SP-350 cameras to be used with housing for UW photography. I just think it's completely unecessary for me to buy a 8 MP camera. I would be satisfied with a 5mp. The print size difference is minimal.

I think I could probably buy a cheaper camera if it's a 5mp, instead of 6, 7 or 8mp.
Do you guys have any suggestions of 5mp cameras that would be in the same level of the S80 and SP-350 in terms of quality and functionality (including manual controls, etc..) ???

I do own a sony DSC-V1 which is a great land camera, but the housing is like U$500. I think it's better if I just get a new camera and housing. What do you think?

I appreciate your input.

Thanks
 
I've just been going through the same issue. I bought a Fuji e900 witht he Ikelite housing. It's a $300 camera with a $270 Ike housing. Tough to beat that for the quality. And the Ike housing is awesome!

Check out digitaldiver.net. There are lots of Fuji fans there and some examples of what it can do. 9 megapixels, but much cheaper than the Canon alternatives. I didn't really consider the Oly's because of the shutter lag. The Fuji has almost zero shutter lag.

Anyway...another option. Cheers :D
 
divebrasil:
Hi Guys,
I read a lot here great things about the Canon S80 and the Oly SP-350 cameras to be used with housing for UW photography. I just think it's completely unecessary for me to buy a 8 MP camera. I would be satisfied with a 5mp. The print size difference is minimal.

I think I could probably buy a cheaper camera if it's a 5mp, instead of 6, 7 or 8mp.
Do you guys have any suggestions of 5mp cameras that would be in the same level of the S80 and SP-350 in terms of quality and functionality (including manual controls, etc..) ???

I do own a sony DSC-V1 which is a great land camera, but the housing is like U$500. I think it's better if I just get a new camera and housing. What do you think?

I appreciate your input.


Thanks

I shoot with a Canon Powershot A610 which is 5 megapixels, personally I find it entirely adequate for my uses.
The price difference though between an A610 (5MP) and A620 (7MP) is only about maybe $70 at most places.
For that sort of money i'd just buy the 7mp, extra pixels come in handy when cropping or printing to large print sizes..

Haven't made a print larger than 8' x 10' with my camera, but the image quality is stellar.
 
Hardly anybody I know uses the highest resolution mode on thier digital cameras. Not saying that YOU wouldn't ....but I'm just saying that an awful lot of people shoot with 7 - 8 mpixel cameras at 3 - 4 mpixel resolution. I guess the idea is to strike happy medium between a picture that would hold it's quality in an enlarged print but at the same time allow for decent capacity on a media card.

'Slogger
 
Can't help you with the camera but if it's deciding between a 5mg or an 8mg, this article might help:

Megapixel myth
INTRODUCTION
Forget the silly debate over pixel counts among digital cameras. There is little visible difference between cameras with seemingly different ratings. For instance, a 3MP camera pretty much looks the same as a 5MP camera.

Resolution has little to do with image quality. Color and tone are far more important technically. Even Consumer Reports in their November 2002 issue noted some lower resolution digital cameras made better images than some higher resolution ones.

THE MYTH
The megapixel myth was started by camera makers and swallowed hook, line and sinker by camera measurbators. Camera makers use the number of megapixels a camera has to hoodwink you into thinking it has something to do with camera quality. They use it because even a tiny linear resolution increase results in a huge total pixel increase, since the total pixel count varies as the total area of the image, which varies as the square of the linear resolution. In other words, an almost invisible 40% increase in the number of pixels in any one direction results in a doubling of the total number of pixels in the image. Therefore camera makers can always brag about how much better this week's camera is, with even negligible improvements.

One needs about a doubling of linear resolution or film size to make an obvious improvement. This is the same as a quadrupling of megapixels. A simple doubling of megapixels, even if all else remained the same, is very subtle. The factors that matter, like color and sharpening algorithms, are far more significant.

The megapixel myth is also prevalent because men always want a single number by which something's goodness can be judged.

Unfortunately, it's all a myth because the number of megapixels (MP) a camera has very little to do with how the image looks. Even worse, plenty of lower MP cameras can make better images than poorer cameras with more MP.

PRINT SIZES
Want to know how big a print you can make before you start to lose sharpness compared to film? It's simple and here's the formula for general cases:

Long print dimension in inches = 4 x (square root of megapixels)
For example, for a four megapixel camera the square root of four is two. Two times four is eight. Thus the biggest print you can make without losing sharpness compared to film at normal viewing distances is is 6 x 8." From a sixteen MP camera likewise you could go 12 x 16." Of course you can print bigger, just you won't have the sharpness of film. Also few people are able to get all the sharpness of which film is capable, making this harder to compare.

Of course you can print much bigger, since sharpness isn't as important in color as most people worry. You can get great results from a 6MP camera at 20 x 30" if you want, since normal people view big images from further away. This is all art and in the eye of the beholder; I prefer huge prints made from my 4 x 5" film camera, and for portraits I prefer the smoothing of digital cameras.

Don't worry too much about this, since sharpness is not as important in color as it is in B/W. I make 12 x 18" color prints all the time from 3 to 6 MP cameras and they look great, since I only print images that are good to begin with.

The entire resolution issue is one of scale and viewing distance. Sure, more resolution is better at bigger sizes, but how sharp your image is has little to do with how good it is. Far more important technically is whether or not the colors are correct and whether or not any sharpening was done tastefully. Many digital cameras add nasty looking sharpening that puts very artificial halos around sharp lines, making the image look obviously digital to those of us who recognize these things. Sloppy sharpening is done to impress the innocent by overemphasizing the lines around things if real sharpness and resolution is lacking.

TO REPLACE FILM
Digital does not replace film. Just look here for why a magazine like Arizona Highways simply does not accept images from digital cameras for publication since the quality is not good enough, even from 11 megapixel cameras, to print at 12 x 18."

If you do fret the pixel counts, I find that it takes about 25 megapixels to simulate 35mm film, which is still far more than any practical digital camera. At the 6 megapixel level digital gives about the same sharpness as a duplicate slide, which is plenty for most things. Honestly, I have actually had digital files written back out onto film to see this. See also my film vs. digital page here.

Of course I use much bigger film than 35mm for all the pretty pictures you see at my website, so digital would need about 100 megapixels to simulate medium format film, or 500 megapixels to simulate 4x5" film. This is all invisible at Internet resolutions, but obvious in gallery size prints.

For images seen at arm's length you need to have about 300 real pixels for every inch of your print's dimensions. If you are looking too closely, as with a contact print, then you'll love to have 600 real pixels or more for every inch of your print. Stand further away as you would from a huge print and even 100 pixels per inch (DPI) can look great. By real pixels I mean real optical pixels, not phony interpolated ones. Multiply the inch dimensions by these DPI figures to get the total resolution (horizontal and vertical, typically thousands in each dimension) you need for a decent image, and multiply these together to get a total number of pixels (usually in the millions, or megapixels.)

For instance, for a fairly decent 8x10 you need [8" x 300 DPI] x [10 x 300DPI] or 2,400 x 3,000 pixels, or 7,200,000 pixels, or 7.2 megapixels. This is what the formula at the top calculates the easy way.
 
DiveGolfSki:
Can't help you with the camera but if it's deciding between a 5mg or an 8mg, this article might help:

So read the article, you tell me what is fact and what is fiction, because there is a lot of both in this and most of Ken's articles.

It's just impossible for the casual user to even begin to understand the difference.

I would suggest that the 4mpix D2H looks NOTHING like the 4mpix E-10. So as usual Ken is leaveing out a huge amount of information that would be needed to determine how well a camera can perform.

He certainly does a lot of equipment reviews for someone who say's the camera does not matter, and just happens to own the latest greatest D200. He's rather a walking contradiction, and as a digital shooter, he is somehow convinced that film remains the best way to go. No problem with his opinion, but recognize he spends a lot of time putting facts together to support what is ultimaltely an opinon not shared by most of the less biased photographers in the world.
 
As someone who has just bought the S80, I'll tell you why I didn't buy one with a smaller chip (5 or 6 mg pix). It had nothing to do the CCD -- but everything else -- the 28 mm WAL, the faster processor (DigicII), and the 2.5 inch LCD (the better to actually see what I'm shooting. I had been using a 3.2 mg pix camera (DiMage Xg) and it captured very good images (not that I could actually see what I was shooting) but the S80 captures better images more consistently, focuses faster, etc.

By the way, I don't know anyone who shoots UW who doesn't use the highest resolution and with the cost of chips, I can't think of any reason not to.

Me, I'd get the best camera I could given the various constraints I have (which is what I did). I wouldn't diss higher mg pixels just because....
 
divebrasil:
Hi Guys,

I do own a sony DSC-V1 which is a great land camera, but the housing is like U$500. I think it's better if I just get a new camera and housing. What do you think?

I appreciate your input.

Thanks

The DSC-V1 remains to date one of the best shooting 5mpx PnS camera's made. It is very fast considering when it was manufactured, and faster than many PnS camera's to date. The downsides to this camera IMO are lack of RAW, and a not so wide 34mm lens. However 34mm is wider than many. This was top on my list along with the V3 when I was considering a PnS for UW use, however the housing was MUCH more expensive (only Ike) and I was starting from scratch in the PnS world. The V3 was my first choice, but at the time $500+ for the camera, and as much again for the housing priced it out of what I was willing to spend for what I consider a short term camera.

IMO get a housing for this camera, as you will spend even more on a camera an housing combination. With a hot shoe this camera can take external strobes without some optical sensor, and that will save you if you are an Ebay type of guy. I guess another option is to sell this camera, and get something like an Oly 7070 or 8080 if you can find them.

Realize that with DSLR's selling in the $500 range, the highend, pro-spec PnS is basically dying, or dead. So top feature PnS's are starting to disappear.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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