Question Buy now, use later?

[Orestis82]

I was wondering more about the practicalities of keeping a mostly unused first stage around, plus other things I might not even be aware about. Thanks for the input, good to know that changing hoses etc is trivial.

 

[Subcooled]

But, I'd like a long-hose configuration, since I do want to keep the Fundies training alive

No no no, it's the buddy you want to keep alive
Keeping the long hose is a good call.

So the choices I see are:

1. Buy a DIR-style regulator set for singles (One first stage, two same first stages) and then buy another first stage if/when needed?

Oh yes. Make sure the brand is somehow serviceable in your club/area.

2. Buy a DIR-style regulator set for doubles, and reconfigure the hoses as needed?

If affordable, then why not? You then have the metal, and you can service it once/if you get doubles or see the light of sidemounting.

3. Buy a Recreational style regulator set (first, second, octopus) to use on recreational, and then rent doubles + reg set as needed?

Why get an octopus? You will want two regs that perform equally well. The price difference is not that great. If you have a regulator that is inferior, then you will want to use THAT by default. You do not want anything inferior in a case of an "emergency", right? In that situation you will want something equally as good or slightly better. Just my opinion...

4. Keep renting as needed until I have more experience

Keep renting until you know what is serviceable and popular in your area.

My questions are:

* Do I risk having different first stages if I buy them separately?

They all deliver air, don't they?
Relax.

OK, there are some minor differences (e.g. in intermediate pressure), e.g. don't mix Apeks first stages and Poseidon Cyclon regs, like I have done. I'm sure there must be a problem at some great depth. The deeper you go the more critical small things become. If you stay within the brand, be it Apeks or HOG or Mares or Scubapro or something else, then I would assume you are safe. Major brands should have pretty stable lineup.

* Do I risk keeping a first stage around unused, or reconfiguring the hoses often?

The first stage might stay unused, unless you switch to doubles soon or get yet another second stage and a pony bottle. Some drysuit divers will want a suit gas (often air) bottle with a separate first stage. You could use your unused first stage for that (it could be a little bit on the large side for that task but it would perform well).

* What's the most efficient use of my money? I don't want to break the bank, as I don't plan to do super cold-water diving any time soon anyway.

1 x first stage, choose wisely, choose a well known and serviceable brand
2 x identical second stage

 

[Subcooled]

I was wondering more about the practicalities of keeping a mostly unused first stage around, plus other things I might not even be aware about. Thanks for the input, good to know that changing hoses etc is trivial.

The metal does not go bad. Some o-rings and other replaceable parts do age however. That's why we service our regs every year (or every second year, or before the first dive, depending on how much we dive and how serious the dives are).

Changing hoses is trivial indeed. Screw off, screw on. It's like changing shoes. And you can mix miflex and rubber if you want - it's just a hose.

 

[lowwall]

I was wondering more about the practicalities of keeping a mostly unused first stage around

Substitute "regs" for "bullets".

 

[SlugLife]

1. Buy a DIR-style regulator set for singles (One first stage, two same first stages) and then buy another first stage if/when needed?
2. Buy a DIR-style regulator set for doubles, and reconfigure the hoses as needed?
3. Buy a Recreational style regulator set (first, second, octopus) to use on recreational, and then rent doubles + reg set as needed?
4. Keep renting as needed until I have more experience

My opinion is either #1 or #3

1. I generally side with this option.
2. Buy what you'll use now. I'd choose #1 over #2

3. It looks like you have relatively few dives. If you pick up an inexpensive set of regulators now, you could always save the money for later. As you become more experience, or perhaps when you're getting ready for DIR/Tech, you might have a better idea what you really want. The use-market could be a good place to start, although, you definitely want to get anything serviced that's on the used-market.
4. Take Option #3 over renting. You'll rental-costs for regulators will quickly exceed what you could spend on having a set that's yours. Not to mention, rental-regulators are (IMO) a bit sketchy and often cheap-quality, versus you could get something decent from the used market. That's not even getting into sanitary concerns.

 

[SlugLife]

I know about different wings, that’s another consideration entirely right? That’s another thing I can rent when diving doubles.

Perhaps down the line I will have a full duplicated setup but I don’t want to spend too much upfront if I can avoid it.

I'll recommend backplate + wing to almost anyone, including new divers. They're modular, and pretty easy to swap harnesses, wings, etc.

Start with a singles-wing. Doubles-wings on a single tank sucks (speaking from experience), because it creates drag, and doesn't dump air easily. Most of your diving will likely be single-tank, and you'll want a single-tank wing, even if you later start diving doubles.

You won't need a fully duplicated setup for singles & doubles, you can just swap the wing on your backplate setup.

If you're going DIR (I'm not a DIR diver) eventually, I believe they have very specific requirements. Anything you buy now might possibly not fit the requirements of DIR anyway, so I wouldn't get ahead of yourself.

 

[tbone1004]

So, the last piece of gear I'm missing is a regulator (and obviously cylinders). I'm based in Athens, Greece, where waters are not that cold.

I am doing Fundies later this week where I'll use rented doubles + regulator set. But, apart from that specific dive shop which is very tech-oriented, most of the other operations are strictly recreational, meaning renting doubles is going to be tricky, especially if also going out on boats etc.

So I'm thinking that for the next couple of years I'll be diving mostly singles. But, I'd like a long-hose configuration, since I do want to keep the Fundies training alive, and to be able to also dive doubles at some point.

So the choices I see are:

1. Buy a DIR-style regulator set for singles (One first stage, two same first stages) and then buy another first stage if/when needed?
2. Buy a DIR-style regulator set for doubles, and reconfigure the hoses as needed?
3. Buy a Recreational style regulator set (first, second, octopus) to use on recreational, and then rent doubles + reg set as needed?
4. Keep renting as needed until I have more experience

My questions are:

* Do I risk having different first stages if I buy them separately?
* Do I risk keeping a first stage around unused, or reconfiguring the hoses often?
* What's the most efficient use of my money? I don't want to break the bank, as I don't plan to do super cold-water diving any time soon anyway.

By far the most cost effective way to do this since you're taking Fundies is to buy a doubles set. Keep the spare first stage as a spare in your save a dive kit, rotate it out once a year and move the hoses around. The doubles set will definitely set you down the best path.

If you buy a swivel turret first stage with a fifth port and not diving dry, then reconfiguring the hoses is pretty simple for single tank diving. Literally just move the two hoses from the right post to the left, the secondary second stage and SPG don't move. More hoses moving if you don't have that bottom port but the 5-port swivels a la Apeks DST are definitely the better configuration option.

Not sure which brands are most prevalent in Greece, but Apeks DST with 5th port, Scubapro MK19 or MK25, Deep6 Signature, etc etc are all in that style and will best serve you.

 

[Orestis82]

Thanks for all the input! As a data point, renting equipment is pretty cheap around here, eg a regulator set costs around 5-10 EUR depending on the shop.

I already have a backplate with a singles wing. I will rent a doubles wing for the fundies class.

 

[Nemrod]

Not saying we should do this or that it is okay, I do not want the scuba police pulling me over again. But, lets see, I recently pulled out of the box (NIB) two Mark V type first stages and put them into service. One I made some 50 dives on in Florida this past summer and the other about a dozen now total. They sat in the box for some 30 plus years, maybe closer to 40. Do not remember exactly when I got them, but Tekna shut down a long time ago (they are 99% parts compatible with the Mark V except are better), I dumpster dived them. Maybe I ought to service them, nah. I have one Conshelf XIV that I bought NIB cheap, cheap, that had been lost behind a heavy counter for decades. Rebuild it or use it, use it got the vote, lol.

 

[lowwall]

The key to safely using any reg is a thorough inspection, especially those that have either a) gone a long (or unknown time) since service or b) just got back from service.

This only requires a tank with some air, an IP gauge, and a bowl of water. For the steps, see

Regulator Inspection and Checklist (Rev-8)

Discussion of this thread can be found here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/regulators/260452-regulator-checklist-inspection.html First off, I would like to acknowledge my friends who have done more than their share in developing this checklist. Due to my laziness and resistance to answering...

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