Buoyancy, weight and Trim.

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Todd, I also have a very thick suit, currently 15/10/5 farmer john and beaver tail but 20/10 in the past. Initially buoyancy control near the surface was a challenge. Careful use of lungs is the control. But with that much rubber, near the surface if you move 10' closer to the surface you need to carefully adjust the BC as well, to shift the range the lungs are working within. Your BC is there to compensate for suit thickness changes with depth over a wide range, and you have a lot of it. Any over weighting is going to make control harder by adding a BC bubble for all that extra lead.

A careful SS weight check where you pass off 1, 2, 3, ... pounds to a buddy or the sand below you and account for the air in your tank is key to getting your weight dialed correctly. Find the max you can pass off breathing calmly and still hold your depth. But have the extra ready at hand to pick up once you go past that point. Maybe try passing off 1, 2, or 3 pounds past the weight of your extra air each dive. If you can do that, start the next dive 1 or 2 pounds lighter. Keep that up until you find you can not pass off any weight past the weight of your air above 500 psi. At that point you have near the bare minimum for that SS depth. Because of your suit thickness, you will need to breath with more and more empty lungs as you make the final part of the ascent, or you can also add 1-2 pounds extra as a cushion and to help keep that final ascent slow. I finish my dives shallow, so I dial this in for 10' or less, which is reasonable as well.

I feel like a 6 lb. swing in the lead that lets you descend is more than extra air in the suit would account for. You might try the cold water advise of pouring hot/warm water into your suit before the dive for the warmth, and in this case air removal. That might give you more consistent buoyancy results while you work things out. Shallow exchanges with full lungs, from stress, will keep you up, and cause CO2 retention which leads to more stress. You may need to breath with near empty lungs to descend, and near empty lungs flush CO2 more efficiently.

(Very thick suits are often cautioned against in most cases due to control issues and large buoyancy loss at depth)
 
Hey Folks,

I'm looking for some feedback. I dive in British Columbia Canada most of the time, and it's cold here so I have a lot of exposure protection. I wear a full 7mm wetsuit, with a 7mm shortie overtop. Keeps me nice and warm.
Typically I wear about 40lbs of led. 14 pounds on my weight belt. 3 pounds x 2 in my two trim pockets. 10 pounds x 2 in my BCD's integrated weight pockets.
Sometimes I can go down without the trim weight but most of the time that's not the case. I don't always have an easy time staying neutral, and I think I use my BCD too much to try and control buoyancy. Still working on the breath. Any advice tips or tricks? Your answers are most appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Todd
Hey Todd,

I'd recommend you check out Whytecliffe Wednesdays. Their FB page is here: Whytecliff Wednesdays

There are some great folks up there, John Nunes, Eli Wolpin, and others.
 
Hey Folks,

I'm looking for some feedback. I dive in British Columbia Canada most of the time, and it's cold here so I have a lot of exposure protection. I wear a full 7mm wetsuit, with a 7mm shortie overtop. Keeps me nice and warm.
Typically I wear about 40lbs of led. 14 pounds on my weight belt. 3 pounds x 2 in my two trim pockets. 10 pounds x 2 in my BCD's integrated weight pockets.
Sometimes I can go down without the trim weight but most of the time that's not the case. I don't always have an easy time staying neutral, and I think I use my BCD too much to try and control buoyancy. Still working on the breath. Any advice tips or tricks? Your answers are most appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Todd

Todd...

Far too much ballast...you will be continuously inflating and deflating your BCD as your profile changes...you're using lots of breathing gas that you're not breathing...

Highly recommend taking a ''Peak Performance Buoyancy'' course...

Also sounds as though you may be diving with AL 80's...if it's in the cards...financially...consider switching up to HP steel 100's...if you're going to carry extra ballast...it may as well be something you can breathe from...

It has already been suggested moving up to a dry-suit...it's an expensive alternative...having said that...a wet suit is only going to keep you so warm...layering up your trunk...increases your positive buoyancy considerably...and only keeping you marginally warmer...

I mentored a young diver a few years back who has gone on to great things...he started with a double layered 7 mm wet suit and single HP steel 100's...he started out with 18 pounds of ballast...and before long he was down to 12...two six pound shot packs...that's all...

Some will tell you...scuba diving is 90% peak performance buoyancy...and 10% everything else...and within that 10% is combining the right components...

Dive Safe...

Warren
 
Sounds like a lot of lead, but if you are not thin, then it may be ok. Reducing excess, unneeded lead might help a little, but buoyancy control is always going to be a challenge in shallow water with a full 7. Mm and shorty.

Don’t kid yourself, the suit with so much thick neoprene is always going to be undergoing significant shifts in lift as you make small changes in depth. There is no work around.

If you are diving above maybe 35 feet, you will need to adjust air in the bc with every change in depth, unless they are transient excursions. Wearing too much lead exacerbates the situation, but there is no escaping it. It is so much easier to dive in a 3 mm shorty, multiple layers of 7. Mm takes more work.
 
I have a super 80 aluminum tank. We picked that up for me because of the size, I'm short, my tank is short, it works out well.

=)


Todd...

Far too much ballast...you will be continuously inflating and deflating your BCD as your profile changes...you're using lots of breathing gas that you're not breathing...

Highly recommend taking a ''Peak Performance Buoyancy'' course...

Also sounds as though you may be diving with AL 80's...if it's in the cards...financially...consider switching up to HP steel 100's...if you're going to carry extra ballast...it may as well be something you can breathe from...

It has already been suggested moving up to a dry-suit...it's an expensive alternative...having said that...a wet suit is only going to keep you so warm...layering up your trunk...increases your positive buoyancy considerably...and only keeping you marginally warmer...

I mentored a young diver a few years back who has gone on to great things...he started with a double layered 7 mm wet suit and single HP steel 100's...he started out with 18 pounds of ballast...and before long he was down to 12...two six pound shot packs...that's all...

Some will tell you...scuba diving is 90% peak performance buoyancy...and 10% everything else...and within that 10% is combining the right components...

Dive Safe...

Warren
 
My shortie has an integrated hood and I definitely need all the exposure protection I listed in the fall/winter BC waters are cold. But I may buy a separate hood and only wear my full wetsuit in the 'warmer' water months. I'm headed to warmer water next fall for a while and will have to readjust everything. But I'll be in the tropics, I'm ok with that. :cool:
Thanks, everyone for your feedback so far this has been really helpful.
Todd

Sounds like a lot of lead, but if you are not thin, then it may be ok. Reducing excess, unneeded lead might help a little, but buoyancy control is always going to be a challenge in shallow water with a full 7. Mm and shorty.

Don’t kid yourself, the suit with so much thick neoprene is always going to be undergoing significant shifts in lift as you make small changes in depth. There is no work around.

If you are diving above maybe 35 feet, you will need to adjust air in the bc with every change in depth, unless they are transient excursions. Wearing too much lead exacerbates the situation, but there is no escaping it. It is so much easier to dive in a 3 mm shorty, multiple layers of 7. Mm takes more work.
 
It seems that many people (on this forum) feel that the buoyancy swings of 2-piece 7 mm suit (plus extra hooded vest etc) is excessive and can compromise safety. Not sure I completely agree, but with that many layers of thick neoprene over the chest area, I found it difficult to approach acceptable trim. There was too much lift in the chest.

I found that hanging non-ditchable 2-lb weight from the front of each shoulder strap, really helped with my stability and trim. Possibly adjusting the location of your ballast might give you better performance?
 
Really helpful suggestions thank you so much! I've been thinking a lot about the air in my lungs and how much that is affecting my buoyancy. I'm still learning and practicing. As for the suggestion to get a dry suit, I've thought about it, but we are going to be headed south next fall, and likely staying down there for a while. So I don't want to take on the extra expense of getting dry suit certified, and investing the $$.

I'm pretty happy with my BCD, it's the same brand and make I did all of my initial training so I'll stick with it for now. Might switch to a backplate once we are in the tropics, less bulk. I really appreciate you taking the time to get back to me.

Cheers and happy diving,

Todd

You'll get there. Keep at it! You're sort of stacking everything against you right now as a new diver with that much lead and that large of a buoyancy swing inherent to your equipment configuration. It's not insurmountable by any means, but it can be quite a learning curve.
 
Practice Practice Practice!

Cheers,

Todd
 

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