Building a reg for travel?

[NTJB]

Hi everyone,

At the risk of asking the same question as many have in the past, I just couldn't find any information on building the entire first/second stage regulator set up. I'm a relatively new diver and I've never owned a regulator before. I've recently decided to spend some money and get my own regulator. I've been looking at the Atomic Aquatics, Apeks, and other regulators from various brands--all very confusing but I am wondering if I might be better off picking individual pieces for my kit and building the thing myself.

My ideal criteria are as follows, and I'm happy to compromise as needed and I'm fully on board with the "buy once, cry once" ideology:
-Lighter is better but happy to take on more weight if it means more durable/reliable material.
-Budget is flexible, let's say ~$1000 max for everything (first stage, second stages, SPG, hoses, etc)
-Turret first stage. More ports is better than less but not a huge deal.
-Same secondary and octo, I don't care for saving a buck or two on the octo--I would rather have the same reliable secondary on both hoses. I'd like the octo to be worn around the neck, though I imagine I would need to measure this out to figure out how long each hose needs to be? Any reason (other than cost) not to go with matching second stages?
-Ideally it is user-serviceable and with parts available globally. I am based mostly in Asia but dive all over.
-I use an Xdeep Ghost BCD, if that matters.
-I've only ever used rental regulators. On a couple of occasions, I found a few hard to pull from, but most of the time, they haven't caused me any issues with fitment or comfort.

I'm a recreational diver that would one day like to get into tec diving but for the foreseeable future, I am a ~50 dives a year traveler. I don't see myself diving in cold waters because I spend most of my time in tropical/warmer places, so cold water performance is not a priority. I realize for many people here ~50 dives a year is nothing and would not warrant expensive gear but I'm happy to spend more if it's worth the coin, especially in the long run.

A few questions:
-Is it even worth the trouble of pulling components from different manufacturers and piecing my own kit?
-If I get a complete kit, how hard is it to replace the hoses with the type/length that I prefer? I would like a longer secondary and a shorter octo but I am not sure how to achieve this and what the typical lengths are. What's the best way to figure out what length hose I need? Are there any reasons not to go with the flexible braided hoses, liek miflex?
-How important are swivels etc for comfort? I've had no issues thus far with rental gear but if it's just a matter of some money to add one, I might just do that if it will help with hose routing.
-On a similar train of thought, do most of you use moldable mouthpieces that you've molded your teeth to like a mouthguard?
-Piston/diaphragm--I've read the pros and cons and I'm leaning to a piston first stage, even if my diving might not really warrant one. Any reason (other than cost) not to go with a piston first stage?
-I like the idea of a balanced regulator but the reality is most of my dives end around 50 bar and are within recreational limits, so I probably won't be able to tell much of a difference. However, if it's just a matter of cost, I am leaning towards getting a balance regulator just in case I run my tanks low and especially if I continue diving deeper.

Finally, in the sea of different brands and models, I would very much welcome some suggestions on particular pieces of gear or entire sets, especially from those who have been using them for a while.

Apologies for the long post, I hope some of you will read through. I just want to be "one and done" with this piece of gear and the cost is not a huge issue within reasonable amounts.

 

[MichaelMc]

Good questions:
- On building from components: certainly possible, but benefit might be slim.
- Self service: the short list is Deep6, Poseidon, DiveRite(?). As others restrict parts to just trained techs (in the US). The first two will train you to be a tech if you desire. Realizing second stages are rather easy, while first are more complex to service.
- Turret: Very nice, particularly for sidemount or stages if you ever go there. How much of an issue before that depends on how you route hoses. ETA: If you necklace your backup reg (as you say you prefer), it is common for the primary to be routed down under the arm. For that a 5th port pointing 90 degrees from the other ports makes routing easier. A 5th port is usually only on turret regs. So, yes a turret is then best.
- Piston/Diagram: I'd more focus on sealed to make washing salt/grit out less worry.
- Hoses can be had from many places: Hoses for SCUBA | Dive Gear Express®
- I'd look at a Deep6 Signature set: Regulator Packages - Regulators, which offers many hose options.

 

[tbone1004]

@NTJB
1. Don't piece and part together a kit. Exception to that would be the SPG and hoses which are irrelevant. The first and second stages IMO should be from the same manufacturer. This is a "do as I say, not as I do" since most of my regulators are mismatched, but that's for very specific reasons. My single tank regulators are not mismatched though *except the double hose, but that doesn't count*.
2. It's not, but a good dive shop should let you order whatever hose lengths you want. Plenty of threads on here about streamlined-ow regulator setups that talk out the different options and hose lengths.
3. Not important in single tank UNLESS you have say a 40" hose that comes under your armpit.
4. I do not, I use Apeks comfobite mouthpieces on all of my second stages.
5. I think diaphragms are easier to rebuild, and they are much easier to seal which is important for me when travelling and diving in salt water.
6. Most regulators you'll look at are balanced, only a few high end regulators these days are unbalanced *Poseidon*, and the rest of the unbalanced are low tier regs for rental fleets.

Deep6 is a top contender in my book and based on what you've said, allows you to get a diaphragm swivel turret, all balance design, custom hose lengths, buy everything at once, and self service. Can't beat that.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

HOG will also allow you to service your own regs. I am a HOG reg tech instructor and dealer.
There is no need to mix and match brands. Service is easier if you don't.
I normally sell reg sets configured to the user and can help you choose your hose lengths so you are not replacing them 6 months from now.
I am usually also able to match prices and offer free shipping, setup, and initial tuning.
I don't try to oversell because I don't have to. For $1000 I could just about put you in two sets of regs.
A sealed balanced diaphragm reg with 2 identical seconds, proper hose lengths for you, and an SPG will be way under $1000 and it will do anything you want it to from rec to tech.
The XDeep Ghost is a BPW style BC so you'll likely want a long hose setup of either 5 ft or 7 ft on the primary with a bungeed back up under your chin.
Swivels are ok but not necessary. Properly routed in a single tank configuration, I might suggest a 110 Degree angle adapter on the back up and put it on a 22 or 24 inch hose depending on how big you are. In a single tank configuration a 22 inch is sometimes just a tad short. The angle adapter would help with that. If you're a big guy the 24 may be a better fit. No need for an angle or swivel on the primary.
This set up would allow you down the road to move into backmounted doubles if you wanted and all you'd need to buy is another second stage.
Shoot me a PM for more info or email me at jimlap212@comcast.net.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I don't use the moldable mouthpieces. If I did, it would only be on my backup reg because I have shared air with people who have them and it's not usually comfortable. The standard ones that come on my HOG regs are cheap to replace, last a long time, and are very comfortable for most people.

 

[NTJB]

Good questions:
- On building from components: certainly possible, but benefit might be slim.
- Self service: the short list is Deep6, Poseidon, DiveRite(?). As others restrict parts to just trained techs (in the US). The first two will train you to be a tech if you desire. Realizing second stages are rather easy, while first are more complex to service.
- Turret: Very nice, particularly for sidemount or stages if you ever go there. How much of an issue before that depends on how you route hoses. ETA: If you necklace your backup reg (as you say you prefer), it is common for the primary to be routed down under the arm. For that a 5th port pointing 90 degrees from the other ports makes routing easier. A 5th port is usually only on turret regs. So, yes a turret is then best.
- Piston/Diagram: I'd more focus on sealed to make washing salt/grit out less worry.
- Hoses can be had from many places: Hoses for SCUBA | Dive Gear Express®
- I'd look at a Deep6 Signature set: Regulator Packages - Regulators, which offers many hose options.

Thanks for the links, I had just stumbled across the Deep 6 stuff after I posted this and it looks to be a good way to go! With the octo around your neck, you're saying it's best to route the main second stage under my arm? I've always had the main second stage over my shoulder and the octo under my arm, but for no reason other than that's how I was taught by one instructor.

Thank you for the comment on focusing on sealed, that's definitely a higher priority as you said.

@NTJB
1. Don't piece and part together a kit. Exception to that would be the SPG and hoses which are irrelevant. The first and second stages IMO should be from the same manufacturer. This is a "do as I say, not as I do" since most of my regulators are mismatched, but that's for very specific reasons. My single tank regulators are not mismatched though *except the double hose, but that doesn't count*.
2. It's not, but a good dive shop should let you order whatever hose lengths you want. Plenty of threads on here about streamlined-ow regulator setups that talk out the different options and hose lengths.
3. Not important in single tank UNLESS you have say a 40" hose that comes under your armpit.
4. I do not, I use Apeks comfobite mouthpieces on all of my second stages.
5. I think diaphragms are easier to rebuild, and they are much easier to seal which is important for me when travelling and diving in salt water.
6. Most regulators you'll look at are balanced, only a few high end regulators these days are unbalanced *Poseidon*, and the rest of the unbalanced are low tier regs for rental fleets.

Deep6 is a top contender in my book and based on what you've said, allows you to get a diaphragm swivel turret, all balance design, custom hose lengths, buy everything at once, and self service. Can't beat that.

Thanks for the insight tbone! I've read your numerous and super informative posts on here and as usual, very helpful. I didn't realize a diaphragms are easier to rebuild and honestly haven't delved that far into the details. I've never taken a reg apart so it's all pretty foreign to me but I'm pretty handy so I think I can figure it out.

What is the upside of having an unbalanced reg? I would've thought all the higher end ones would be balanced. I like Deep 6's mantra of having just one product and not distinguishing various price/quality points, do you think their products are reliable? I would prefer to keep things simple and easy to maintain if at all possible.

HOG will also allow you to service your own regs. I am a HOG reg tech instructor and dealer.
There is no need to mix and match brands. Service is easier if you don't.
I normally sell reg sets configured to the user and can help you choose your hose lengths so you are not replacing them 6 months from now.
I am usually also able to match prices and offer free shipping, setup, and initial tuning.
I don't try to oversell because I don't have to. For $1000 I could just about put you in two sets of regs.
A sealed balanced diaphragm reg with 2 identical seconds, proper hose lengths for you, and an SPG will be way under $1000 and it will do anything you want it to from rec to tech.
The XDeep Ghost is a BPW style BC so you'll likely want a long hose setup of either 5 ft or 7 ft on the primary with a bungeed back up under your chin.
Swivels are ok but not necessary. Properly routed in a single tank configuration, I might suggest a 110 Degree angle adapter on the back up and put it on a 22 or 24 inch hose depending on how big you are. In a single tank configuration a 22 inch is sometimes just a tad short. The angle adapter would help with that. If you're a big guy the 24 may be a better fit. No need for an angle or swivel on the primary.
This set up would allow you down the road to move into backmounted doubles if you wanted and all you'd need to buy is another second stage.
Shoot me a PM for more info or email me at jimlap212@comcast.net.

I don't use the moldable mouthpieces. If I did, it would only be on my backup reg because I have shared air with people who have them and it's not usually comfortable. The standard ones that come on my HOG regs are cheap to replace, last a long time, and are very comfortable for most people.

Thanks Jim. Let me have a look at the product line and I'll reach out to you if I have any questions. Thank you for the offer.

Edit: How does everyone feel about using a DIN first stage with a Yoke adapter? Is it silly and better to just get a Yoke and forget the DIN fitment? Just trying to future proof my gear...

 

[saxman242]

Edit: How does everyone feel about using a DIN first stage with a Yoke adapter?

Depending on the reg, swapping out a DIN fitting for a yoke fitting isn't particularly difficult, especially for someone that's set up to user service already. Just swap fittings when you know you'll be using the a different tank/traveling.

 

[tbone1004]

@NTJB you can dive with primary over the shoulder. It's not as clean, but it's how we train our students and how GUE used to teach short hose for recreational. I personally prefer that to the 40" hose with an elbow for most diving.

The only upside to unbalanced regulators are less moving parts and simpler overall design. If the first stage is balanced well, then the second stages don't really benefit from being balanced, and vice versa. If I had to choose, I would always choose balanced first, unbalanced second vs the other way around, but given the choice I prefer both to be balanced.
I dive Poseidon second stages because of personal preference. They happen to be unbalanced, but they are also a very unique design in the regulator world. You can also take a service course with them, but I would not recommend purchasing one until you have a chance to dive them. They are very different in how they breathe compared to everything else on the market and I have several buddies who said they'd rather drown than share gas with me. I dove a Dive Rite reg set last weekend cave diving on a couple hour dive, and was reminded how much I prefer the breathing characteristics of my Poseidon regs. They were tuned properly, etc. but I just prefer the way my regs breathe.

I believe in the Deep6 products and have had no issue taking their prototype and production regulators many thousands of feet back into caves. The Signature regs are basically Hog D3.5's. They are what the D3/Zenith evolved into. Can't go wrong with either of them, but I believe the total cost of ownership is lower with the Deep6 regs due to the way they treat parts kits. Both companies offer repair courses to end-users.

If you are doing most of your diving with rental tanks, get yoke. I have no aversion to using adapters, but I would only recommend it if you get in a pinch. I personally swap one of my din regs to yoke any time I'm going to be travelling. All 20+ of my tanks are DIN, as are the probably larger number of regulators that I own. I keep both DIN and Yoke fittings in the reg bag for my double hose since that is what I travel with. It usually is DIN since that's what my tanks are, but it is swapped to yoke when I know I'm renting. The reg set that I use when teaching, loaning to friends, etc. stays primarily as yoke and I'll use a din insert in the tanks if they're using my bottles.
Since you mention that this is for travel, I would urge you to get yoke. Except for certain places in Europe where DIN is actually standard, the rest of the world uses yoke as the standard tank outlet. Buy the regulator for the main type of diving that you're going to do. I believe DIN is a better connection, and as a cave diver, it's infinitely better, but for dive ops the yoke is a far better connection to keep around. Tanks less prone to damage, easier to fill, no threads to bugger up, etc. and because of that, I'd urge you to buy yoke. If you plan on owning your own bottles, or end up going the tech route, you can buy the DIN conversion kits and swap yourself. Takes maybe a minute to swap between the two. Not much longer than screwing on the yoke adapter, weighs about the same as the yoke adapter for travel, but it makes the dive much more comfortable not having it stick so far out into the back of your head.

 

[NTJB]

@NTJB you can dive with primary over the shoulder. It's not as clean, but it's how we train our students and how GUE used to teach short hose for recreational. I personally prefer that to the 40" hose with an elbow for most diving.

The only upside to unbalanced regulators are less moving parts and simpler overall design. If the first stage is balanced well, then the second stages don't really benefit from being balanced, and vice versa. If I had to choose, I would always choose balanced first, unbalanced second vs the other way around, but given the choice I prefer both to be balanced.
I dive Poseidon second stages because of personal preference. They happen to be unbalanced, but they are also a very unique design in the regulator world. You can also take a service course with them, but I would not recommend purchasing one until you have a chance to dive them. They are very different in how they breathe compared to everything else on the market and I have several buddies who said they'd rather drown than share gas with me. I dove a Dive Rite reg set last weekend cave diving on a couple hour dive, and was reminded how much I prefer the breathing characteristics of my Poseidon regs. They were tuned properly, etc. but I just prefer the way my regs breathe.

I believe in the Deep6 products and have had no issue taking their prototype and production regulators many thousands of feet back into caves. The Signature regs are basically Hog D3.5's. They are what the D3/Zenith evolved into. Can't go wrong with either of them, but I believe the total cost of ownership is lower with the Deep6 regs due to the way they treat parts kits. Both companies offer repair courses to end-users.

If you are doing most of your diving with rental tanks, get yoke. I have no aversion to using adapters, but I would only recommend it if you get in a pinch. I personally swap one of my din regs to yoke any time I'm going to be travelling. All 20+ of my tanks are DIN, as are the probably larger number of regulators that I own. I keep both DIN and Yoke fittings in the reg bag for my double hose since that is what I travel with. It usually is DIN since that's what my tanks are, but it is swapped to yoke when I know I'm renting. The reg set that I use when teaching, loaning to friends, etc. stays primarily as yoke and I'll use a din insert in the tanks if they're using my bottles.
Since you mention that this is for travel, I would urge you to get yoke. Except for certain places in Europe where DIN is actually standard, the rest of the world uses yoke as the standard tank outlet. Buy the regulator for the main type of diving that you're going to do. I believe DIN is a better connection, and as a cave diver, it's infinitely better, but for dive ops the yoke is a far better connection to keep around. Tanks less prone to damage, easier to fill, no threads to bugger up, etc. and because of that, I'd urge you to buy yoke. If you plan on owning your own bottles, or end up going the tech route, you can buy the DIN conversion kits and swap yourself. Takes maybe a minute to swap between the two. Not much longer than screwing on the yoke adapter, weighs about the same as the yoke adapter for travel, but it makes the dive much more comfortable not having it stick so far out into the back of your head.

Thank you so much tbone--I am going to take your advice and go with the yoke. I don't see myself owning any sort of scuba tank in the future for actual dive use (maybe a small tank to "test" equipment at home but I am definitely renting the tanks) and your advice makes 100% sense for my situation. If the day ever comes where DIN is what I am using, I can switch then. Does it make sense to focus my current gear purchases on recreational single tank diving? My BCD will only accommodate single tank up to 15L max and I'm told is not convertible to doubles, so I figured if one day I do get into more serious/tec diving, I would probably spend the money to get a new set up and practice with that. I'm just worried I will "outgrow" the things I buy today too soon. Then again, as a travel diver, I haven't come across shops that will offer doubles for diving--though I haven't ever thought of asking either. Thanks for taking the time to reply, it's helpful to hear the logic/thinking behind gear choices from experienced divers as opposed to "get X" or "buy Y".

I did some more digging on Deep 6 and HOG, it seems neither has any presence or affiliation with shops outside of the US. As I am primarily based in Asia (with short stints in the US), do you think this is an issue? Let's assume I won't ever service my own regulators, would I be better off with a more "global" brand?

At the risk of sounding stupid, is the 40" hose with an elbow that you mentioned a set up where you would use a 40" hose under your arm for your main second stage? Where would the octo go then? I'm a bit confused on how people are routing their hoses so that the octo ends up on a bungee around the neck. I had assume you would use a long hose on the main second stage (is 40" considered long enough for most?) and a shorter hose for the octo around the neck (assuming it would only have to travel from the first stage to my mouth (so maybe 22-24" at most?).

Any thoughts on their cheaper scribble series? I'm a bit conscious on the weight of these things and it seems the scribble is smaller (and presumably lighter).

 

[MichaelMc]

Ready parts kits availability for self service and also service in a shop found around the world can be hard. Option one is mailing them off, or mailing the first stage(s) and doing the seconds yourself. Option two is survey your local shops and buy what they service, which is unlikely to support self service; what that might be depends. Poseidon might get you both, it depends on the shop, but tbone is our expert on them, and they are a specific 'taste'. Older models, particularly of ScubaPro or AquaLung, often have kit availability, see in particular: Store | Vintage Double Hose. These vintage second stages are still common today or models that are close children of them, 109/156/G250. Many vintage seconds are also metal, which is not light. The older firsts are harder to find, and certainly not new.

Yes, if you will never service your own reg and can not readily mail it in for service for what ever reason, you are better with a reg your local shop can service. Or keeping a backup set of in the box to switch to when you feel the current ones need service. Selling the ones needing service, or mailing them off for service.

Streamlined openwater setup:
- - Streamlined OW | Dive Gear Express®, for one distributors packaging of severals regs that way.
The norm there is 40 and 22" hoses.

Scribble might save a few oz's over the Signature. Wt. Difference between Signature and Scribble first stages

I've got ScubaPro and Deep6 Signature firsts and seconds. I expect either would still serve no matter what tech I move into.