buddy out of air emergency...and the lessons learned

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I was just tagging along as a 3rd diver on this dive. Not his specific buddy but I'd do the same for anyone. His valve was way more than a 1/2 turn. It was practically closed!
anyways thanks for your thoughts and feedback. I appreciate the support.
Les
 
Les: I checked twice to see that it was actually you posting this :)

First, glad you are ok.

Second, I think you did a good job. As for those practice dives, call me! I need to get out and do a bunch of s-drills, practice deploying SMB from depth etc. Lets get out.

Finally, if the DM should have made sure the dive was conservative and stuck close to his newly certified "friend". As well, I think that with divers that could be 'shaky' playing follow the leader is dangerous and side by side is a much better approach. Again, why the DM wouldn't do this is beyond me. I agree that checking peoples recent coldwater experience is essential.

I know personally, I've been shocked a few times lately and then realize that it was because I wasn't diving with my "regular buddies" and that things that you and I might expect don't always happen. :)
 
First of all you have my respect for posting in this section of the board, it can get a bit rough. Second I think what you did was right on. Congratulations on making it through a very trying experience. I have been through a similarly very trying experience so I know what you were dealing with in this situation, and then some. You kept you head and kept another diver alive. Congratulations.
 
rdharbis1:
Great Job Les.

In my training, we were taught to never remove the primary reg from our mouths. Our OOA buddy was to have access, either we donated or they took it, from our 'buddy' regulator. I have not yet been to AOW and I certainly need more training, is this the advanced method for maybe Rescue Diving. Just an opinion, but it seems that both divers become at risk when you donate your source and begin looking for the other reg.

Randy

Some divers prefer to put the long "donation" hose on their primary because they say that's the one thats going to be grabbed by the panicked OOA diver.
 
First, let me say good job handling this underwater. Never easy dealing with these scenarios.

A couple of thoughts.

1. I don't do the "turn back" deal. Valve is either on, or off. Period.

2. Pre-dive is the same ALL THE TIME. I got sloppy with this on dive 2 of 3 in class a few weeks ago, and it nearly cost me. In that pre-dive, valves are checked. If you are in the habit of putting them all the way on, or off, there will be NO ambiguity during the regulator checks.

3. S-Drill before every dive. Period. And test the reg underwater. This step helps each team member become familiar with each other's regs. Had a paniced diver on my hands in class when she was passed a Poseiden for the first time and didn't know where the purge button was. When she found it, she got a MOUTHFUL of gas and wasn't prepared for it.

4. DM was remiss in my opinion, but had probably resigned himself to tag-along, since the lead took such an active role. If you are in a team of three, you need to ACT like a team of three. Not a buddy pair+1. Involve the third diver to a greater extent than just signaling OK every 20ft.

5. Feelings be damned, if you are about to do a dive with someone you dont' know, find out their training and experience. Your life could be on the line with them. If you had gone OOA, could the #2 diver have acted properly? If you don't know the answer to this for sure, you have something to ponder. Would you have done a shallower dive knowing this?

6. While I know this is not a DIR forum, one thing about DIR descents and ascents, is I really like the idea, when possible, of descending and ascending facing each other. It makes it FAR easier to read people's eyes and motions when you are looking them in the face. In class a couple of weeks ago, I was #2 in a team of 3 (group of 5) and we were doing a descent in an area where we could not face each other. It was about a 40ft drop on an angle. The lead got out of trim started fighting, and paniced. I saw her lose trim and start to fight, and I moved in immediately. By the time she grabbed the wall for comfort, I had my hand on her BC. She was facing the wall, and I turned her to me. I was eye to eye about a foot apart. I held her hand and made signals for her to look at me. Once she fixed on me, her breathing calmed down. I waited a while, until she calmed down, then signaled OK, and she confirmed it. We did the rest of the dive without incident. The eyes tell the story. Look at them if you can.

7. Fix problems at depth if you can. One thing you did not mention here. The diver had an OOA at 70ft at the beginning of the dive. The diver did not panic. Once the diver had gas and calmed down a bit, was there any attempt to try to figure the problem out? Doing this with a new diver might be more risky, but you said you didn't know that. Clearly, without a leak of massive proportions, the diver had plenty of gas in the tank as you had just begun the dive. It should have been somewhat obvious that there was either a regulator problem or a valve problem. Perhaps fixable, perhaps not. Just wondering if you tried to find the issue or not.
 
Perrone: Good points.

On #7 though, if I'm with a diver I don't know, and (s)he just had an OOA, I'm not sure that I would want to continue the dive, ever if his air could be turned on. IMO, not knowing what the reactions will be later in the dive, I'd rather get the chance to _talk_ to him out of the water, even if it is just at the surface. Then perhaps do a different and much more conservative dive, if (s)he is calm collected and in control.

Just my $0.02

Bjorn
 
Les:
....interesting story snipped.....

divers out of all of us and learn from others mistakes...small or big.
safe diving,
Les

I haven't read the other responses yet so I hope I'm not repeating anything:

1- you did great. This is what you train for. You (and the diver in question) remembered and applied your training and it all ended well. Excactly what you want! Well done on to the whole team.

2- once the buddy had the alternate it doesn't sound like you took the time to examine the problem. What I notice DM-ing is that many people try to do things too fast and in the process either make mistakes or skip something that might help. In this case, once the buddy had the alternate it might have been worth your while to take a close look at the problem and maybe you would have found the valve issue while still under water and solved it. That, of course, would have been a much bigger kick than handling the emergency.... don't you think?

R..
 
You know, I thought for a while about #7, before posting it. That's why it was last. In my training since OW, there has been an increasing emphasis on "fixing problems in the water", and not relying on the surface. Now that I have taken on overhead training, the surface is no longer an option at all.

I do agree with you that continuing the dive with someone of unknown temperment after a OOA scenario can be VERY challenging. I've been lucky enough to drill for it, and have it sprung on me either at the hands of my instructor, or at my own doing through diver error. In both cases the surface was not an option. For someone who is not accostomed to dealing with this, it might be overwhelming, and i might be prudent to end the dive.

It's a judgement call.

-P



jeckyll:
Perrone: Good points.

On #7 though, if I'm with a diver I don't know, and (s)he just had an OOA, I'm not sure that I would want to continue the dive, ever if his air could be turned on. IMO, not knowing what the reactions will be later in the dive, I'd rather get the chance to _talk_ to him out of the water, even if it is just at the surface. Then perhaps do a different and much more conservative dive, if (s)he is calm collected and in control.

Just my $0.02

Bjorn
 
IMO, dealing with an OOA by performing an air share then calmly surfacing is handeling the situation underwater, at least in a rec. diving situation. Remember that anyone can call any dive at any time....Having just been spooked by an OOA seems to me to qualify.
Sure, there is nothing wrong with discovering the problem, turning the air the rest of the way on and continuing the dive if everyone concents. More experienced and more comfortable divers are more likely to be able to do this but I see no problem with the other option.
Joe
edit
I want to amend this a tad. This assumes the surface is a safe environment and not something like a high traffic shipping lane.
 
After thinking about the whole dive afterwards, I do agree with you about trying to solve the issue U/W. The surface is not always the best/even an option in certain circumstances. That is one of the things, if I could change afterthefact, I would have opted that route. The experience truned out safely and many lessons learned.
Thanks to all who have replied.
Les
 
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