Buddies kept grabbing/pulling me to ascend faster than computer said was safe

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Back in the stone age... We did not have computers and did just fine .... The poster sucked through their air in 15 minutes and was maybe narc'd... If you raise your hand fast you can set off the buzzer on some of those computer's.... It sounds like a piss poor dive that went south fast and why I dive with very few other people...

Jim...
 
Just to ground the "slow ascent" discussion in reality... the NDL for 90 feet dive is 25 min., and the dive lasted 17. If the OP were to ascend for an additional 8 minutes (for a total of 11), she would have been ascending at something like, 1.5 inches per second... and she would have run OOG well before reaching the surface. I think it's safe to say that excessive on-gassing due to the ascent being too slow is not an overwhelmingly large factor in this incident...

If the OP started at 3200 as she mentioned and ended at 744psi on an AL80 - with a 17.5 min total run time - assuming a normal ascent at 30 ft per min with no safety stop her RMV was 1.06.

If she did the same dive but went from 30 ft per min to 8 ft per min (which is an 11.3 min ascent from 90 feet) - she would have been OOG by 108 psi or 2.8 cu ft.

So I am not so sure that her dive buddies were that far off - still no excuse to put hands on her - but they could have stuck around till the OP ran out of air... Unless they too were low on air and did not want to leave her down there...
 
We started to ascend and at first I was having trouble going up because I had emptied all my air (found out I shouldn't do that later in the day)

This statement really bothers me. Does it not bother anybody else?
 
Yes it does.... That's why I think all is not "Right" with what was posted...

Jim...
 
There's probably already far more input than you wanted but I'm going to throw in my opinion.

I've got the same computer. I've seen the ascent alarm occasionally and I've never seen it go off when it should not have. It does not get triggered by moving your arm around quickly. Your dive buddy was wrong to rush you and wrong to omit the stop.

If you have an infrared adapter (most laptops have them built in) you can download the log data from your Luna. You can view the log file in the scubapro software or even export it and post it here. The log will show your depth profile where you can see ascent and descent rates. If you have the transmitter you'll even have a complete log of air consumption throughout the dive. The software can use that for a moving sac calculation.

The software will clearly show you if you were ascending too fast at any point in the dive.

I've always enjoyed downloading and looking at my dive logs. It also gives me a super accurate logbook!

There are a few programs you can use to download and look at your logs. I use Subsurface (free). You can also use the software Scubapro supplies (also free but windows only).
 
My thoughts are;

No one should be man handling anyone else while diving unless it is very clear they are in need of help (ill, unconscious, panicked, etc). In these cases, clear communication solves all issues.

The number of years a person has dived, is not an indication of their experience and ability. A case in point, I dived in PNG along with a NZ couple. They made the comment that they had been diving for over 20 years. In watching them gear up, make comment about us, and how they dived, indicated to me that they were very poor divers indeed. Further clarification from them indicated that they only dived once a year or so, thus they only had around 20-30 dives under their belt in 20 years. Also I have found that those who clearly sprout out their vast knowledge, experience and ability usually have an ego and self serving view of themselves far exceeding their perceived ability of themselves. People of this character usually run down others to show their "superiority".

On the assumption you were doing something incorrect, they should have sat down with you and explained in detail, your mistakes etc, and the reasons why they did what they did, offered support and help to improve your skills etc. It would appear to me that all they perhaps did was to justify their actions and nothing more.

The instructor who told you to dump all your air before ascending should be shot at the post. Are you sure you have not been confused on the direction he/she gave? Perhaps he/she said to slowly dump as you go up???? I say this as I find it strange that an instructor would do this (but perhaps not as not all instructors are good). I did see a woman pull her mask off her face while trying to purge water, rather than finger on the top and blow slowly. She kept wondering why her mask filled as she lifted it totally from her face and then blew. A quick discussion cleared this up, and all it was, was her confusion when the instructor first lifted the mask from his face to fill it with water.. To move on from all the finger pointing, you do not dump all the air from your BCD "before ascending", rather you dump as required on the way up to keep near neutral buoyancy. Thus when you stop at say 5m for your safety stop you are neutrally buoyant, neither heavy (with no air in BCD), or floaty with heaps of air. If you practice this its easy to do. You should not need to continually fin to stay at any depth.
 
I think there is a hand signal that they should include in the manuals to use in this sort of situation, known as "the finger". I was pretty nervous on my second deep dive and would be really stressed out if someone did that to me, especially if separated from main group!
 
I am wanting to get people's opinion on what I should have done. What would you have done in that situation. Is it ever ok for someone to grab you if you are conscious? And at only 30-40 feet? If the computer says I am ascending too fast and I have enough air to make it to the surface is there any reason I should speed up. Am I wrong for being utterly enraged? When I came up I tried to explain to the dive master but was so upset I didn't know how much air I had when I was ascending and just shut up because I was on the verge of bawling. I let it go and just buddied up with someone else for the rest of the trip. It wasn't until I spoke with the owner and he looked at my computer that I knew (after surfacing) I had had enough air to slowly ascend.

Well, I haven't read the other responses yet but I can just imagine what people will say. I'll avoid blaming anyone (I suspect others will reach a consensus on who was to blame) and just make a couple of general comments.

First of all, you were following your training. You were taught SAFED (slowly ascent from every dive) and you followed the ascent rate indicator on your computer. You were fully aware of what you were doing and applying your training to the best of your ability. That's all right in the bullseye the way I see it.

Secondly, you had enough air to make the ascent, although you seem to have reached this conclusion on the surface when the dive was done. There is more to learn about planning/managing your gas (even on the fly) to be certain about these things while the dive is going on. Some of it are topics that you may or may not have been taught in your OW course depending on your instructor's own approach. I would like to make you aware of this for further learning. It can (and does) avoid a lot of stress and guesswork, especially when dives are getting deeper and closer to the NDL's.

Third, you were diving with an experienced buddy who communicated to you to get a move on. Normally in this situation I would have assumed (as you did) that he had a good reason for that. It *IS* possible, for example, to ascend too slowly but it doesn't sound like that's what you were doing. What this sounds like to me is that either your buddy was not aware of ascent rate recommendations, he didn't care, or there was a pressing reason why he was in a hurry. Don't let 30 years of experience fool you. A LOT has been learned about decompression theory in the last 30 years. When your buddy was certified (I have also been diving for 30 years so I have context for reference) it wasn't uncommon to make ascents that were so fast that the snorkel would wobble on your mask strap. We had a very rudimentary understanding of decompression theory, we didn't have "safety" stops and we dove with tables, which usually offer a large margin for error. If your buddy hasn't kept up with the times then it's possible that he was diving with an old "paradigm" about ascents in his mind and not understanding why you were taking it easy. My only advice to you would be to discuss it with him after the dive to understand what he was thinking. It's quite possible in my mind that you were the buddy with more knowledge about ascents.

Finally, it would appear that what your buddy primarily wanted was to stay together and not get separated during the ascent. That's good! From reading what you wrote I believe he should have slowed down instead of your speeding up unless there was some pressing need to get to the surface. In the situation, if my buddy looked like he was in a big hurry to get to the surface then I would have signed to him. (a) OK? (b) slow down and (c) how much air do you have? If he was ok and had enough air then I would have insisted that he slow down. I dive with people using different computers on a regular basis and our rule is that the diver making the slowest ascent (provided it's not too slow) is the diver who controls the ascent speed for the group. The only exception to this can be if someone is diving on tables and doesn't have the flexibility in ascent strategies that a computer offers.

I have one other question. I was skeptical about my buddies abilities b/c before we got in the water he didn't even know how we were supposed to descend and I had to tell him what the dive master had said, he didn't know which way was north (with a compass), and kept staying in front of me and never looking back. I had to chase him to tell him I was low on air. Does the length of time a person has been diving have any bearing on their abilities and safety skills? Can someone be diving a long time and just cheated death? I ask b/c I have a tendency to be highly critical and don't know if I'm just being nit picky.

30 years of experience can be a massive asset if the diver has kept up to date and continues to develop and learn. However, diving was different 30 years ago and someone who learned to dive 30 years ago and never kept up with the times could look like like an absolute tool as compared to modern divers. Massive experience doing the wrong things is only a guarantee of expertise in making errors.

R..
 
... It *IS* possible, for example, to ascend too slowly ...

Seriosly????? Where did you find this smoke to blow out your butt?

---------- Post added April 28th, 2015 at 09:00 AM ----------

Well, if your response to someone grabbing your arm is to kill them, then we are all glad you dive exclusively solo.

Not at all what I said. I said I would give them the opportunity to back off and desist. If they refused to do that they are endangering my life - which I have a right to protect.
 
......
I firmly believe that a lot of people understand that they are supposed to do a slow ascent, but they take that warning far too far.

It's not a "warning".

Ascent rates are well understood. From a deep dive (not the 30m dive we are discussing) then the early part of the ascent should be made at a rate that prevents further on-gassing. A 30m dive is not going to give that problem. The last part of the dive - the final 10m is the most important. Since the OP was talking about being hassled to the surface at or around the safety stop (I assume 3m) there really is no reason whatsoever to take that action. Looking at the gas they report 40 odd bar which would be more than enough to do the stop, a surface swim and get back on the boat with a bit to spare.

PADI SAFE diver - Slowly Ascend From Every dive.

I thought the world had moved on from bend and mend profiles......
 
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