BSAC 2005 accident report released

[Kirky]

In the UK (and without wishing to start a PADI/BSAC Flame war) I would say that most divers are PADI trained. The BSAC report relies on feedback from all agencies and it is probable that there is more feedback from BSAC members as the report is run thru BSAC. They do use other data but members are encouraged to fill in an incident report for each incident. It could be fair to say that a whole load of incidents go unreported.

From a UK perspective, I would avoid trend analysis as the data does not reflect the number of dives done - just incidents, and "apparently" diving is a growing sport thus more dives etc.

having said that, the report is excellent in at least showing "the other side" of diving and a lot can be learnt from reading the incidents.

 

[String]

I think it's interesting how in this report from BSAC, that it doesn't include data on time between dives (<1 month, <1 year, >1 year, >2 years, etc) whereas the DAN data has that mapped out, and it seems that in their report, the greatest number of accidents is from divers who don't dive frequently, but have "skills"

They dont but its a bit more fiddly to gather. The incident reports are gathered from various sources including the coastguard and newspapers who wouldnt have that information in a lot of cases.

HOWEVER all the incidents obtained via the incident report form (a standard form agreed by all major agencies in the UK) does have sections for this data so it depends really what %of reports are submitted this way and if its enough to be statistically significant.

 

[String]

In the UK (and without wishing to start a PADI/BSAC Flame war) I would say that most divers are PADI trained.

Its hard to tell. There is also the issue of "UK nationals qualified as divers" and "People who dive in the uk". I suspect that although in sheer numbers of qualified divers in the UK padi wins by a fair amount BUT if you start looking at active UK divers you may well find that figure is much closer. Unfortunately neither BSAC, PADI or anyone elses records can differentiate between qualified and active in the country,

The BSAC report relies on feedback from all agencies and it is probable that there is more feedback from BSAC members as the report is run thru BSAC. They do use other data but members are encouraged to fill in an incident report for each incident. It could be fair to say that a whole load of incidents go unreported.

Its worth noting here the incident report sheet is actually designed by the British Diving Safety Group ( http://www.bdsg.org/ ) which is a collective of the 16 major agencies involved in UK diving. Its a standard form. BSACs role in these incident reports are in the UK governing body - in other words its the one responsible for collating these reports and publishing regardless of agencies so "BSAC incident report" is probably a bit misleading here.

Now onto the subject of the forms themselves. There is a problem here as firstly not all incidents are reported. Minor ones nobody tends to bother with the paperwork despite the pleas for this. The result is a higher % of "nasty" incidents than actually happened. In additition to this, a major problem theyve had lately is that incidents that happened that were successfully resolved MOST people dont bother signing a form. Again, this results in a skewed % of failed rescues or injuries when compared to a happy ending. Example, someone has a rapid ascent from 20m after an OOA could be recovered onto a boat, given O2, shows no symptoms, no action by DDRC or HMCG and nobody bothers logging it. That would be one incident that was resolved properly that never appears in the report.

I guess what im trying to say here is these figures are far from perfect BUT are a lot better than nothing. Possibly the best learning tool in all this is actually reading the individual incidents and what happened and how to avoid them instead of getting too bogged down with the numbers.

From a UK perspective, I would avoid trend analysis as the data does not reflect the number of dives done - just incidents, and "apparently" diving is a growing sport thus more dives etc.

There's debate as to whether UK diving is growing, shrinking or staying the same. No clear evidence from either camp and again, without logging all dives its hard to say. BSAC membership is just about stable but that doesnt mean a lot. Lots of those may only dive abroad, another member may do 500 dives a year and so on.

 

[String]

Would you recommend that I train with BSAC for diving in the UK ? I did my OW with PADI earlier this year in KOH TAO Thailand ! But the stats that BSAC published worry me !!

See my explanation above - they arent BSAC stats, they're everything combined from all agencies. BSAC is just tasked with compiling the report.

Regarding the training i would say that if you want to dive here, you should train here (as opposed to abroad then hopping in). Conditions here are far different from what you get in nice tropical locations. Cold water, low vis, strong currents, huge tides, rough seas, poor surface weather and often all at the same time. Whatever agency id strongly suggest learning here if you wish to dive here.

My own personal view is that club based training (whatever agency be it Scotsac,BSAC,SAA,PADI) is more thorough and therefore better than school based training. Yes it takes longer but you will find you get more dives, more experience, more ready-made buddies and all in all a far better grounding than doing a course for 2 days then hunting around charters for buddys.

I personally trained via BSAC and through a club system and having experienced some of the "other side" i think i made the right choice. Others may disagree.

Basic entry level courses from most agencies are broadly similar so its not really important who you go with although its worth noting that some agencies disallow decompression diving (which is very common here, PADI being one i can think of) whereas others train it from their 2nd stage course (BSAC,SAA and so on). There are other subtle differences as well. You need to decide what you're after and research before deciding what to go for.

 

[cdiver2]

See my explanation above - they arent BSAC stats, they're everything combined from all agencies. BSAC is just tasked with compiling the report.

Regarding the training i would say that if you want to dive here, you should train here (as opposed to abroad then hopping in). Conditions here are far different from what you get in nice tropical locations. Cold water, low vis, strong currents, huge tides, rough seas, poor surface weather and often all at the same time. Whatever agency id strongly suggest learning here if you wish to dive here.

My own personal view is that club based training (whatever agency be it Scotsac,BSAC,SAA,PADI) is more thorough and therefore better than school based training. Yes it takes longer but you will find you get more dives, more experience, more ready-made buddies and all in all a far better grounding than doing a course for 2 days then hunting around charters for buddys.

I personally trained via BSAC and through a club system and having experienced some of the "other side" i think i made the right choice. Others may disagree.

Basic entry level courses from most agencies are broadly similar so its not really important who you go with although its worth noting that some agencies disallow decompression diving (which is very common here, PADI being one i can think of) whereas others train it from their 2nd stage course (BSAC,SAA and so on). There are other subtle differences as well. You need to decide what you're after and research before deciding what to go for.

Would it be fair to say the trend in British diving is long deep dives with decompression rather than short multiple dives?. I know it used to be this way.

 

[String]

Its a difficult one. Depends where you're comparing it to i guess. Decompression diving is far more common here than elsewhere as its taught early on by the main club based agencies. Certainly there isnt the "must avoid the NDLs" type diving you see in some locations, generally its "Oh, we're in deco. never mind".

Generally in the UK 2 dives per day is the norm (very rarely 3). A few reasons for this, firstly the cold air temperature generally all year round means people get cold on a boat even in summer plus most diving here is severely tidal with only 1 or 2 short slack water periods for a site in a 24hr period so you cant just turn up at any site at any time and jump in.

Its probably on average a bit deeper with a bit more deco but a lower number than elsewhere.

Then again, looking at these reports those factors dont appear to be related to most of the incidents.

 

[cdiver2]

The question was more geared to Irobots question about UK diving.
Diving UK waters in the 70's-80 I found most of the diving to be wreck diving with average depths in the 80'-120' foot range. Agreed on the cold after the dive, I left the UK in 81 and dry bags were just starting to come on the market for rec divers.

 

[dbulmer]

Cdiver2,
Yup - that's still largely the case.

The biggest difference I have seen between tropical and cold water diving (addressing Irobot here) is the mindset. Divers are generally less tolerant of poor diving skills not only from the safety point of view but also because with the conditions we have over here everyone wants to maximize their time in the water since the weather gods are not always too kind.

Having been tropically trained myself the thing I am learning more than anything else is the ability to actually see what's there - there's a lot to see in UK waters but the biggest problem is seeing it

 

[cdiver2]

Cdiver2,
Yup - that's still largely the case.

The biggest difference I have seen between tropical and cold water diving (addressing Irobot here) is the mindset. Divers are generally less tolerant of poor diving skills not only from the safety point of view but also because with the conditions we have over here everyone wants to maximize their time in the water since the weather gods are not always too kind.

Having been tropically trained myself the thing I am learning more than anything else is the ability to actually see what's there - there's a lot to see in UK waters but the biggest problem is seeing it

Doe's go the BSAC route it wold help if he brushed up on charts & tides, boat navigation. I found it one of the essentials when diving at home, but that was in the 70s maybe things have changed now.

 

[String]

Charts and navigation are still in the syllabus but at the level he'd be entering not a lot. Sport diver first introduces it which is the level above what he'd cross over as so not really an issue as it would be taught.

I agree though, most clubs with their own boats mean some boat handling skills, navigation and so on are pretty essential to have a succesful day.


EDIT:- On a related note if anyone wants to see what these incident forms are and what needs to be filled in:
http://www.bsac.org/techserv/increp04/intro.htm#increpform or http://www.bsac.org/techserv/increp98/inctrepform.pdf