BP/W with octo on inflator

[DiveTub]

The day I see the AIR2 being used as a full-time primary 2nd stage, is the day I will take a 2nd look at this piece of kit.

I was Decking on a recreational dive boat the other day, of the 16 people on the boat 12 of them had Air2's on their rigs... Might be time for that second look eyebrow

Cheers
Chris

 

[Soggy]

Come on fellas
For recreational limited, no Deco Diving ie direct ascent to the surface the Air2 is a great bit of kit, They work fine!

Why are they ok for recreational diving and not for technical diving? If they are the best choice of gear for recreational diving, they would be the best choice of gear across the board. If it is a "great piece of kit" it wouldn't matter whether you are rec or tech diving. My rig is *identical* between recreational and technical except for the number of regs and and tanks I carry on my back. Emergency procedures are identical.

Recreational divers should have the same goals out of their gear as technical divers. The only difference is that tech divers need more crap. Technical divers strive for simplicity, redundancy, and streamlining in gear.

Since we've established that they are not a good choice for technical diving, we have established that AIR2s are not the best choice of gear. Why would any sane person get in the water with something known to be suboptimal?

 

[Soggy]

I was Decking on a recreational dive boat the other day, of the 16 people on the boat 12 of them had Air2's on their rigs... Might be time for that second look eyebrow

Cheers
Chris

Timmy: "Everyone is doing it, Mom"
Mom: "If everyone jumped off a bridge, would you jump off a bridge, too?"

Next argument, please...

 

[DiveTub]

Why are they ok for recreational diving and not for technical diving? If they are the best choice of gear for recreational diving, they would be the best choice of gear across the board.

Would you wear a recreational jacket style BCD for Technical Diving:06: I don’t think so, moot argument really isn’t it, There are 3 types of basic Dive gear, Recreational, Technical and CCR's, now I agree there is a small majority of divers that use Tech gear for Rec diving like yourself, but its never the other way round is it…

If it is a "great piece of kit" it wouldn't matter whether you are rec or tech diving. My rig is *identical* between recreational and technical except for the number of regs and and tanks I carry on my back. Emergency procedures are identical.

So what, the fast majority of Recreational divers have no idea how long a long hose is, how to rig a Hog set-up or any plans to strap on twin tanks. As I said for recreational single tank diving an Air2 is going to get you out of the water in the unlikely event of an emergency, show me 2 recreational divers on a dive boat wearing identical gear on your average rec weekend dive boat.

Recreational divers should have the same goals out of their gear as technical divers. The only difference is that tech divers need more crap. Technical divers strive for simplicity, redundancy, and streamlining in gear.

What! how would they know "what same goals out of their gear as technical divers". ? All they have done is a basic open water course. They are diving in a buddy pair, maybe do 20-50 dives a year in clear warm water and are never going into deco, they are not even going to know let alone why complicate things with 7ft hoses, Bungee necklace's and twin tanks, if you are just going for a splash on a nice shallow warm coral reef?

Since we've established that they are not a good choice for technical diving, we have established that AIR2s are not the best choice of gear. Why would any sane person get in the water with something known to be suboptimal?

No what you have established is you prefer to dive a Hog Rig for all your diving, others including myself have multiple rigs depending on the type of diving we are doing. Yet others are happy to use an Air2 for shallow recreational diving and that is that only style they will ever do.

Now Why is the Air2 a "suboptimal" bit of kit? Every major manufactorer makes at least one! I challenge you to show me a reported death that was attributed to using an Air2 in a OOA situation....

Cheers
Chris

 

[*Floater*]

What problem do the AIR 2 and Transmitter solve?

Fewer hoses, less clutter, smaller and lighter to pack (unless you carry traditional backups 'cuz you don't trust these things).

What problems do they add?

More expensive, less reliable, harder to use.

What about rebuild kits, ease of self-service or cost of service at LDS? Can you open them up underwater?

Just my $.02. The transmitters seem to be a pretty good idea in theory actually, I just don't trust their reliability, nor do I want to spend extra when the regular spg works fine. As for the air2, I sometimes use independent doubles, which means switching regs several times during the dive and I can't imagine spending half my dive breathing one of those things...

 

[Mandy3206]

As long as the AIRII serves me well, I'll continue using it, the one less hose feature is a benefeit that some may not want to see, tech diving is another theme, but for for rec diving is perfectly OK.
Mine is installed in a wing, so there's no diference when instaling it on a wing or a jacket style BC, heck, it can be installed in a horse collar if you want to.

The transmiter eliminates another hose, but until I find a reliable enough transmiter, I'll stick with the SPG.
A few yrs back, when I used the transmiter, my reg only had 2 hoses, that in my opinion is a great advantage.
Now my reg only have 3 hoses, and looking foward to find a reliable transmiter so I can switch back to 2 hoses.

 

[Soggy]

As long as the AIRII serves me well, I'll continue using it, the one less hose feature is a benefeit that some may not want to see, tech diving is another theme, but for for rec diving is perfectly OK.

You won't know the AIR 2 is a problem until it is...and at that point it will be too late.

I still don't understand how fewer hoses is better than reducing robustness.

Look at it this way...technical diving is all about minimizing failures and providing redundancy. If extra hoses were a concern, why wouldn't technical divers be all worried about extra hoses and be using air 2s? A very little bit of care will leave your hoses lasting years and a little bit of inspection every so often will prevent ruptures.

I can accept that they aren't necessarily a death trap, however they are *clearly* not an optimal solution and I cannot fathom why anyone would ever jump into the water with less than optimal gear, especially when the alternatives are less expensive, easier to maintain, and more reliable.

 

[partridge]

I am seriously looking at the AIR 2. Though I always take a couple months before I buy something. Half the time I change my mind.

I admit that the air 2 is a compromise when ascending and having to vent. I compare this to driving over the speed limit. Lots of people do it. Driving 75 miles an hour is dangerous. I have weighed out the risks and have deemed it worth it.

With regards to rec vs tec. If I follow this line of reasoning then all of us would be driving to work wearing what Michael Schumacher wears when he races, even though I only drive 20 miles an hour and my office is only 3 blocks away.

To sum up, I feel it is ok for people to use the air 2 so long as they have weighed the pros and cons and regularly practice using it. Those that dont do this are the stupid ones.

 

[Mandy3206]

You won't know the AIR 2 is a problem until it is...and at that point it will be too late.

I still don't understand how fewer hoses is better than reducing robustness.

Look at it this way...technical diving is all about minimizing failures and providing redundancy. If extra hoses were a concern, why wouldn't technical divers be all worried about extra hoses and be using air 2s? A very little bit of care will leave your hoses lasting years and a little bit of inspection every so often will prevent ruptures.

I can accept that they aren't necessarily a death trap, however they are *clearly* not an optimal solution and I cannot fathom why anyone would ever jump into the water with less than optimal gear, especially when the alternatives are less expensive, easier to maintain, and more reliable.

I don't see how another reg is more robust than an AIR II, I've practiced many times drills simulating an OOA, I can vent and breathe at the same time, no deco ever, been using one close to 10yrs over 400 dives and never let me down, I service it myself and it's allways well lubbed and ready to rock.
I'm not talking about hoses being blown, that can happen to anyone at anytime, but mostly, it can be avoided if you check your gear every time you use it. I'm talking easy of packing, service, rig your gear, streamlining, less entanglement posibility, ect. these are all advantages in my opinion.
IMO, for rec diving, it beats the crap out of carrying 2 2nd stages anyday.
You should know how to use your gear in an emergency and practice with it regularly, being it an AIR II type or a bungied necklace, the user have to practice and be proficient with the gear that he'll be using.

Maintaining and AIR II is no diferent than any other 2nd stage, if you can do one, you can do the other.
The more reliable issue that you mentioned, is not true, since I've never had any issues in the time I've been using it.
IMO it is optimal gear, serves 2 purposes well and how it was intended to.

I'll grant the higher price tag, but diving is a gear intensive sport and a diver has to spend money to get what he wants, I got a closet full of gear that I don't use any more, but it served the purpose when it was bought, very few things I've bought dissapointed me since I tend to do a long research before buying, most dissapointments were rushed buys.

When a diver jumps into tech diving, then money for gear and carrying gear around is not an issue at all, but if you are a rec diver that dives in the no deco limits, you don't want to carry, maintain, clean, rig, buy, ect more gear than you have to, so tech and rec are 2 diferent animals, you can adapt some tech techniques to rec diving, but lets be fair, not everyone is DIR so no 2 gear sets are identical out in the real world.

You won't find a techie on a cattle boat, and you won't find a rec diver in the Andrea Doria.
I'm on the middle of the worlds, do 1 or 2 cattleboats per yr, and dive with my buddy every other sunday on a fishing charter boat just for the 2 of us and maybe 1 or 2 guests that we know.

 

[Hoosier]

With regards to rec vs tec. If I follow this line of reasoning then all of us would be driving to work wearing what Michael Schumacher wears when he races, even though I only drive 20 miles an hour and my office is only 3 blocks away.

You are with me. That logic motivated me to attach Air 2 on the Eclipse wing. I am way far from DIR, but again, I can swap it with the genuine one within 30 seconds....

sometimes use independent doubles, which means switching regs several times during the dive and I can't imagine spending half my dive breathing one of those things...

Floater, I don't get this part. I have been one of a few independent divers on our board. Why do you think you have to use Air 2 as an one of reg in an independent set up. We are talking about the sing wing, not double wing here. Once I was only using SP Knighthawk, I used to use two AL80 as an independant doubles. The Air 2 didn't need to be used as other main 2nd stage....