Bp/w Recommendations

[yoni]

Hi
I have decided to get a new BCD and would very much like to go over to a BP/W setup. I do not have a lot to spend, but I know how important it is to get the best quality you can afford.
I was looking at the Golem Gear 35 Lbs SS Combo. It looks well made and is sold at an attractive price. I have never heard of this company before, but after doing some research, they seem to have a good reputation. Most of the info I found though was from quite a few years ago. I would appreciate any and all feedback about this company and their gear (especially from the techs out there).
I was also looking at the Dive Rite setup , which looks good. Although Dive Rite is well known in the US, it is not very popular where I come from.
Scubapro X-Tek Pure Tek Complete System is also on sale.
I am open to all suggestions. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Yoni

 

[cool_hardware52]

Hi
I have decided to get a new BCD and would very much like to go over to a BP/W setup. I do not have a lot to spend, but I know how important it is to get the best quality you can afford.
I was looking at the Golem Gear 35 Lbs SS Combo. It looks well made and is sold at an attractive price. I have never heard of this company before, but after doing some research, they seem to have a good reputation. Most of the info I found though was from quite a few years ago. I would appreciate any and all feedback about this company and their gear (especially from the techs out there).
I was also looking at the Dive Rite setup , which looks good. Although Dive Rite is well known in the US, it is not very popular where I come from.
Scubapro X-Tek Pure Tek Complete System is also on sale.
I am open to all suggestions. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Yoni

Yoni,

Independent of brand (there are many perfectly adequate BP&W's) you should consider if your application requires:

A "standard" sized plate or a size other than "one size fits all"?

A light weight plate, (aluminum or kydex) or the ballast a Stainless Plate provides?

Wing capacity. What is the minimum lift capacity your application requires?

Tobin

 

[JohnnyC]

Since Tobin's too nice to suggest his own stuff, I'll do it for him.

Golem makes nice stuff, however Jakub can be hard to get ahold of if there's an issue. His stuff is nice but he's got the communication skills of a brick. If the stuff is in stock and you don't have any problems with it, you'll be fine. Other than that it's a crap shoot.

Dive Rite makes nice stuff as well. Lamar Hires has been around forever and his stuff is solid. The DR BP/W stuff is pretty vanilla, very straightforward. However, they're just not really my preference.

ScubaPro is sort of an also ran. ScubaPro at some point decided to jump into the tech market by making a BP/W that looks a awful lot like the rest of the other tech gear on the market, without understanding the why and the how. That's why you see things like a pull dump on the inflator and harnesses with 37 d-rings and quick releases. In general there are things that ScubaPro does well, and things that I think they have simply to join in on a market sector. Fins and regs are excellent, their X-Tek line is sort of a non-starter.

Deep Sea Supply makes quite possibly the best BP/W combo on the market. I would purchase a DSS plate at the least, since there are several options to fit your size and your diving style. As an example, I've got the shoulders of a lumberjack, so I fit in a large even though I'm not blessed with the gift of height. I have a friend that dives a long plate because he's a freakin' gooney monster and stands close to 7 feet tall. DSS also offers plate weights to get weight off your belt and put it over your lungs, their glide adapter is excellent, in general they're just really well done and innovative compared to everyone else. Their wings are also fantastic, and the OPV's are the best on the market. It'll be a little more expensive than buying something on sale, but it's a better product.

Give Tobin a call and give him some measurements and tell him what type of diving you're doing and where and he'll set you up with some excellent knowledge.

 

[yoni]

Yoni,

Independent of brand (there are many perfectly adequate BP&W's) you should consider if your application requires:

A "standard" sized plate or a size other than "one size fits all"?

A light weight plate, (aluminum or kydex) or the ballast a Stainless Plate provides?

Wing capacity. What is the minimum lift capacity your application requires?

Tobin

Thanks for your reply. You made a number of good points. I will basically be buying from the internet, because where I live there isn't much to choose from and it's very expensive. Also, when I ask questions I rarely get straight answers, therefore I am trying to gather as much info as I can from the web.
At this point I am starting a dive master course. I may or may not do a tech diving course sometime in the near future.
I admit that I don't know that much about BPW sets to answer most of these questions. On one hand, most of my diving will be basic recreational(15° - 35°C), yet on the other hand I would want something so that if I do a tech diving course I would be able to use most of what I have (obviously it will not be good for a double tank setup). I would think I would want a SS plate for the extra weight. I assume that every company has their own sizes that would depend on my height and build.
Wing capacity ...I have no idea what I would need. Most of what I was looking at had something like a 30-35 lb lift.

 

[yoni]

Since Tobin's too nice to suggest his own stuff, I'll do it for him.

Golem makes nice stuff, however Jakub can be hard to get ahold of if there's an issue. His stuff is nice but he's got the communication skills of a brick. If the stuff is in stock and you don't have any problems with it, you'll be fine. Other than that it's a crap shoot.

Dive Rite makes nice stuff as well. Lamar Hires has been around forever and his stuff is solid. The DR BP/W stuff is pretty vanilla, very straightforward. However, they're just not really my preference.

ScubaPro is sort of an also ran. ScubaPro at some point decided to jump into the tech market by making a BP/W that looks a awful lot like the rest of the other tech gear on the market, without understanding the why and the how. That's why you see things like a pull dump on the inflator and harnesses with 37 d-rings and quick releases. In general there are things that ScubaPro does well, and things that I think they have simply to join in on a market sector. Fins and regs are excellent, their X-Tek line is sort of a non-starter.

Deep Sea Supply makes quite possibly the best BP/W combo on the market. I would purchase a DSS plate at the least, since there are several options to fit your size and your diving style. As an example, I've got the shoulders of a lumberjack, so I fit in a large even though I'm not blessed with the gift of height. I have a friend that dives a long plate because he's a freakin' gooney monster and stands close to 7 feet tall. DSS also offers plate weights to get weight off your belt and put it over your lungs, their glide adapter is excellent, in general they're just really well done and innovative compared to everyone else. Their wings are also fantastic, and the OPV's are the best on the market. It'll be a little more expensive than buying something on sale, but it's a better product.

Give Tobin a call and give him some measurements and tell him what type of diving you're doing and where and he'll set you up with some excellent knowledge.

Thanks for your reply. I actually tried to contact Jakub, but as of yet, I haven't received a reply. Their stuff seems to be made very well (Cordura 2000 on outer construction). I'm worried about parts and repairs in my neck of the woods especially if he is so hard to get a hold of.
I popped over to Deep Sea Supply's site. I had to really search for info on their gear. I suppose they are another company to consider. I can always ask Tobin any questions through this forum.
Thanks again.

 

[Caveeagle]

A Backplate with a single tank adapter is pretty hard to beat. 28-32# wing should be fine for single tank use. I have been using the same backplate for single/double tanks (backmount). I just swap out a larger wing in place of my 32#/STA that I use in open water.

My experience with a ScubaPro S-Tex has not been great. The wing/harness seems ok, but I have had issues getting the pull-dump/swivel to seal. And it seems to be totally unique to SP, so its expensive and nobody wants to touch it outside of a SP dealer.

In comparison, I also own Dive Rite, HOG, and Hollis wings. The bladder fill/dump ports all seems to be a common size/design. Last month, I needed to swap out the fill elbow adapter and my LDS had the right part hanging right on the wall for ~$10.

 

[tbone1004]

The DSS website is fairly straight forward because with this type of bcd, there isn't a whole lot to talk about.

Their backplates have overmoulded grommets which protects the webbing and removes the need for slidelocks to lock the webbing in place. They have a flatter profile of the plate which moves the tanks closer to your back. They removed the need for an STA, but also put a molded center section on the wing to keep the tanks from rolling off. The wings are able to be removed from the backplate without removing the cam bands for cleaning and storage. Wings use some of the thickest inner bladder material on the market to prevent any puncturing, and use heavy duty cordura outer layers for abrasion resistance. They offer the best dump valves on the market.

I'm sure that's all on the website, but there isn't much else to say. If you have to talk about your stuff more than what I just wrote, there is too much gimicky junk on there. If you want to know more, just call the owner of the company and he'll be able to tell you whatever you want to know.

I am a big fan of STA's under certain circumstances, however for most recreational divers, they are not necessary. If you are adamant about using STA's, then you can ask Tobin to remove the plastic section from the middle of the wing and use his wings with STA's with no issues. You'll pay about $500 for the Deep Sea Supply rigs, but they are worth the premium over other brands, as opposed to Halcyon and others where there is a substantial premium for their products but you don't get it anything in return. This is affectionately known as the Blue H tax. Their gear is truly some of the best out there, and their customer service is second to none, but it's a bcd, there isn't much to go wrong unless you do it yourself *pinch flats, or exposure abuse to chlorine/sun*, so buy durable and high quality products and they'll all likely outlast your diving career.

 

[wetrocksrock]

Thanks for your reply. I actually tried to contact Jakub, but as of yet, I haven't received a reply. Their stuff seems to be made very well (Cordura 2000 on outer construction). I'm worried about parts and repairs in my neck of the woods especially if he is so hard to get a hold of.
I popped over to Deep Sea Supply's site. I had to really search for info on their gear. I suppose they are another company to consider. I can always ask Tobin any questions through this forum.
Thanks again.

If you want answers and you want them now, Tobin is your man! Pick up the phone and give him a call...you will be glad you did! As others have stated, his products are some of the best on they market and they are surprisingly in the lower price range. Tobin's equipment is built to last and he really pays attention to the details that other companies disregard. I absolutely love my DSS BP/W and I consider that purchase one of the best that I have ever made. Sure, Dive Right, Hog, Halcyon, etc etc etc make good products, but what this comes down to is an efficient rig build by someone who is passionate and knowledgeable, and with the customer service you will receive from DSS, I can't see any reason why you wouldn't give Tobin some SERIOUS consideration...

By the way, congrats on the switch to a BP/W

 

[cool_hardware52]

Thanks for your reply. I actually tried to contact Jakub, but as of yet, I haven't received a reply. Their stuff seems to be made very well (Cordura 2000 on outer construction). I'm worried about parts and repairs in my neck of the woods especially if he is so hard to get a hold of.
I popped over to Deep Sea Supply's site. I had to really search for info on their gear. I suppose they are another company to consider. I can always ask Tobin any questions through this forum.
Thanks again.

Yoni,

The basics I need to make a recommendation are:

Height and weight

Most buoyant Exposure Suit, and the buoyancy of that suit

Cylinders used with that ^ suit

Lease buoyant exposure suit, and the buoyancy of that suit

Cylinders used with that ^ suit.

Keep in mind that a BP&W is a modular BC, and as such it can be tailored for given set of conditions. The wider the range of conditions the more compromises required. Be realistic.

Plate size is a function of the height of the diver

Plate material (Kydex vs Stainless Steel) is a function of total ballast requirements, and that is a function of Exposure suit buoyancy and cylinders used. A guy in a 3mm suit using negative steel cylinders needs very little additional ballast. A diver in a 7mm suit with buoyant al 80's needs a *lot* of ballast.

Wing capacity is mostly a function of the buoyancy of the diver's exposure suit. Buoyancy Compensators compensate for things that change, and the buoyancy of the diver's suit is the main thing that changes buoyancy as WRT to depth.

Smaller wings are easier to dive, careful matching of wing capacity to the application pays benefits in the water.

Tobin

 

[yoni]

Yoni,

The basics I need to make a recommendation are:

Height and weight

Most buoyant Exposure Suit, and the buoyancy of that suit

Cylinders used with that ^ suit

Lease buoyant exposure suit, and the buoyancy of that suit

Cylinders used with that ^ suit.

Keep in mind that a BP&W is a modular BC, and as such it can be tailored for given set of conditions. The wider the range of conditions the more compromises required. Be realistic.

Plate size is a function of the height of the diver

Plate material (Kydex vs Stainless Steel) is a function of total ballast requirements, and that is a function of Exposure suit buoyancy and cylinders used. A guy in a 3mm suit using negative steel cylinders needs very little additional ballast. A diver in a 7mm suit with buoyant al 80's needs a *lot* of ballast.

Wing capacity is mostly a function of the buoyancy of the diver's exposure suit. Buoyancy Compensators compensate for things that change, and the buoyancy of the diver's suit is the main thing that changes buoyancy as WRT to depth.

Smaller wings are easier to dive, careful matching of wing capacity to the application pays benefits in the water.

Tobin

WOW Tobin
This really helps a lot. Thanks.
To start, I am just shy of 182 cm tall, medium build.
I dive almost exclusively in salt water (Mediterranean Sea and Red Sea) all year round, which means the temperature of the water can be anywhere from 13° to 35° C. I will either be using a 7mm wetsuit and hood, 3mm hooded vest with a 3mm wetsuit, just a 3mm wetsuit, or just a bathing suit in the mid-summer. Even though it may not be ideal, I will be using the same wing for all my diving. I usually carry the standard stuff - flashlights, spool, safety sausage, spare mask ...etc. On 40 meter dives I sometimes take along a pony.
Even though I own a 15 liter steel tank, I use it mostly when diving with friends in the more remote places, on night dives, or sunrise dives - when the dive centers are closed. Otherwise I use 12 liter aluminum tanks from the dive centers.
Like I mentioned before, I may be doing a technical diving course in the future, but I don't think that should be a "major" consideration.
Being that I tend to need more weight than most (yea I know, I'm still working on that), I would probably prefer the SS plate.
I suppose that about does it. What's the verdict?
Thanks again
Yoni