BP/W Questions

[soltari675]

I need to get my advanced and get some experience in before this is a real concern. But I thought I should start doing some research ahead of time so I can save the money. I plan to do a lot of wreck diving, once I have training for it. It's something that really fascinates me. I am hearing a lot that I should use a BC designed for technical diving, rather than my Ladyhawke.

I don't know a lot about the back plate with wings. What do you look for or consider really important when you choose one? What features, or lack of, mean the most? Just getting a general feel on what to look at. Thanks.

 

[Bob DBF]

If you are going to dive single tank for your wreck diving it seems to me your outfit would work fine and you could sling a pony on it should you want one.

If you are going to do tech diving and/or dive with doubles for your wreck diving then looking ahead at BP/W's is a good thing. I looked quite a while before I bought and got some value for my patience.


Bob
-------------------------------
I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Most will respond withe their favorite brand(s).

I won't go into why or why not to get a BP/W, since you have already decided.

I like Deep Sea Supply for these reasons:

A better plate. Why? the bend is flatter than most other, and they have rubber insert in each of the webbing slots. Great attention to detail.

Their Kydex plate is very nicely done also.

Wings: They come in many more shapes and sizes than every other company. The inner bladders are made from a more durable material than most, if not all others. The outer shell is made of a better fabric than the others.

Some will argue that the Oxycheq wing with the knife proof material is better. I won't comment on that except to say...search here on it.

The OPV on the DSS wings are better than everyone else's. There have been some recalls of other brands.

The buckle that comes on the DSS harness is much thicker than the thin ones that come on everyone else's stuff.

The inner bladders on DSS wings are made to match the size of the outer shell. quite a few of the other brands use different shells to go with one size fits all bladders. This means that if you buy a smaller wing size, it'll have a big bladder in it. This creates folds inside.......stuffing 10 lbs. of crap, in a 5 lb. bag, basically.


There are cheaper, there are more expensive, but there is none better than a DSS BP/W rig.

I have owned a few different brands, including the Oxycheq that I still have.
People can say what they like about Oxycheq.......I own one.

It is not even close to my DSS in quality....I did replace the OPV with a DSS one.

Whoever buys it, will end up with an awesome OPV.

The inner bladder is a lot bigger than the outer shell, the folds sometimes trap air bubbles. It's very obvious when inflated that the bladder and shell do not match.

Customer service between DSS and "O".....I'll leave it to you to search on that and form your own opinion.

All BP/W's are the same. They're a plate, a harness, and a wing. It's the construction, materials, features, and attention to detail that separate them from one another.

My wife and I own 3 DSS rigs so far. I've tried and sold off some of the other brands.

Like all other BP/W threads...this one will be a dogpile.

-Mitch

 

[Dr Wu]

What do you look for or consider really important when you choose one? .

You look for nothing really. That's why they are a good choice for more complex diving. They simply "are".

What features, or lack of, mean the most?

The "lack of features" is the point.

Simply Zen out and dive.

 

[DevonDiver]

A BP&W is a type of BCD, nothing more, nothing less. It is a modular design, so you can opt for whatever functionality you like; which makes it applicable to any sort of diving or conditions.

Technical divers use a BP&W with a large capacity wing (air bladder) to support a pair of double tanks. Those tanks are held very securely because they can bolt directly into the metal backplate.

For recreational divers, a smaller capacity/shape wing allows the use of a single cylinder. The tank fits to the backplate via a camband (just like any regular BCD). Because the camband threads directly through the backplate which has the benefit of offering a very stable and low-profile system. With some backplates, the use of a single-tank adaptor (STA) is needed to hold the camband/tank securely.

The use of a wing (air-bladder) means that the buoyancy is provided at the rear of the diver. This contrasts with a jacket BCD, which provides buoyancy around the torso and rear of the diver. Having a 'rear-inflate' wing has specific advantages underwater. The primary advantage is that it helps the diver create a more stable position and allows an easier horizontal stable 'trim'. It also reduces the 'bulk' of the diver, allowing more streamlining and less water resistance. For wreck diving, the streamlining also has the benefit of allowing the diver to swim within enclosed/overhead spaces with less risk of entanglement and getting stuck.

Having a metal (steel or aluminium) backplate allows the diver to spread some of their required weight over the length of their upper torso. This also helps with creating stable horizontal trim. Having good trim is particularly important for wreck diving. If the diver has bad trim, then it is far harder to utilise and effective finning technique to reduce kicking up silt inside a wreck. Using a metal backplate also means that the diver doesn't have to carry as much weight on their weight belt - which most BP&W divers find more comfortable and, again, helps with trim because their weight is more evenly distributed across their centre of gravity.

Another benefit of a BP&W is that it allows the use of a minimalistic 'hogarthian' (hog) harness. This is a simple arrangement of a single piece of webbing that runs through slots in the backplate to provide shoulder and waist straps. Because of its design, it is infinitely adjustable to fit the diver perfectly. The minimalism is excellent at reducing task loading, reducing entanglement hazards and there are no 'failure points' (plastic quick-release buckles that can break before or during the dive).

You can opt for a more complicated 'comfort' or 'deluxe' harness, that resembles a regular BCD harness (with dangling straps and plastic buckles) - but most BP&W divers prefer the economy, simplicity and ruggedness of the Hog harness.

The BP&W also makes use of a crotch strap. This strap runs from the waist belt, between the legs up to the rear of the backplate. Using a crotch strap makes a real difference in allowing the diver to create a very stable 'second-skin' fitting system.

Additional functionality, such as; pockets, integrated weights etc can be added to the BP&W system if required. However, new BP&W users should resist the temptation to try and turn their modular system into a jacket BCD clone. The real benefits of a BP&W come when the mindset of 'less is more' is applied.

You can buy a BP&W as a complete system, or you can opt to buy the components individually and make a custom set-up. Most BP&W items are universally compatible between different manufacturers. The basic items you will need are:

1. A single tank wing (donut or horseshoe shaped) with an appropriate amount of lift for your needs. Search the forum for the 'wing lift calculator' thread to determine these. Typoically, a 30lb wing is sufficient for most divers...although some cold water divers in thick exposure suits and steel cylinders may require a 40lb wing.

2. A steel or aluminium backplate. Steel is typically the best option, unless you need to transport your diving kit regularly on flights, in which case an aluminium wing can help prevent excess baggage charges.

3. A harness and crotch strap. IMHO, it is best to start with a cheap hog harness. Only upgrade to an expensive quick release/adjustable harness if you absolutely need to...and once you have fully trialed the hog harness.

4. Single Tank Adaptor. This is only needed for certain brands of backplate.

Here is a list of my recommended BP&W manufacturers:

A. Halcyon. These are expensive, but the quality reflects this. They have an excellent warranty system and are very innovative with their designs.

B. Oxycheq. They have a nice range of wing/bladders and offer very robust materials. Again, a high quality manufacturer.

C. DSS (Deep Sea Supply). Another quality brand, with the benefit that their owner, Tobin, is here on Scubaboard and takes a keen personal interest in helping his customers with the selection and use of their systems. You can contact him on scubaboard...just search for cool_hardware52

Hope that helps... any other questions, just ask!

 

[randytay]

I need to get my advanced and get some experience in before this is a real concern. But I thought I should start doing some research ahead of time so I can save the money. I plan to do a lot of wreck diving, once I have training for it. It's something that really fascinates me. I am hearing a lot that I should use a BC designed for technical diving, rather than my Ladyhawke.

I don't know a lot about the back plate with wings. What do you look for or consider really important when you choose one? What features, or lack of, mean the most? Just getting a general feel on what to look at. Thanks.

I just "converted" to BP/W recently when I took a UTD Essentials Course. Never looked back. A BP/W is versatile enough to go both singles or doubles (using different wings). Having a stainless steel BP helps reduce the amount of weight. I used to require 16lbs on a Zeagle Ranger with 3mm wetsuit, with my BP/W I only need 4lbs. SO I would recommend to get a stainless steel BP; and if you need to travel, just strap the harness and BP on your carry on and wear it like a backpack

My only problem with my BP/W is that my instructor doing my DM course did not like it and wanted me to wear a "regular" BC when taking his OW students out *bummer*

 

[Blue Sparkle]

What do you look for or consider really important when you choose one? What features, or lack of, mean the most? Just getting a general feel on what to look at. Thanks.

I'll tell you what I did and maybe my example will give you some ideas. This is for single-tank diving, and in my case in warm waters.

1) I looked for a plate that fit me (height-wise). (Since you are female that might not be a "standard" sized plate -- it wasn't for me). I tend to like things that are carefully made, with good attention to detail, fit-and-finish, and so on, so I looked for that in the plate (and in the other items below). That was more important to me than the absolute cheapest price; you may be different*.

2) I thought about the type of diving I would be doing in the near future, and then calculated how much lift I would need for that and bought the smallest wing (lift/#) that would do the job properly (i.e. not trying to "avoid" a future purchase by buying a huge one now to cover all possible diving ever).

3) After hearing it suggested by those I figured knew their stuff, I bought a plain harness first to try. Since they are relatively cheap, I figured I could always change to a more "deluxe" one later if I wanted to (but would never know if I started with the "deluxe" one). I had initially figured I wanted a deluxe one because....well... I guess because I was comparing it to what I would want in a backpack on land. As it turns out, I really like the "plain" one so that turned out fine.

4) I wear a weight belt so I didn't need weight-pockety type accessories.

5) I didn't buy any padding for the plate, and even with only a Lycra skin underneath, I find it very comfortable.

6) I looked over the various manufacturers' methods of tank stabilizers, STAs, and wing attachments to see what I thought I would like. I started out with a wing that had its own stabilizers so did not need an STA (single-tank adaptor). More recently I bought an STA to try out. A priority for me in all of the choices was keeping the tank from being a super tower way up over my head (head-to-foot-height-wise). I can see benefits to both arrangements.

7) I didn't see any shore diving or long hikes in my near future (darnit), so comfort on land was not a priority (but maybe I can change that )

8) Future: I need pockets so will either glue some onto my wetsuit(s) or make or buy some shorts and put pockets on them (to wear over any of my gear). Last summer I was able to wear a pair of cargo-ey swim trunks over my gear, but they don't fit over my wetsuit and the pockets were not that great anyway. That's at the top of my to-do list.

9) Slightly backtracking, but how I ruled some brands out:

a) No small backplate available.
b) No wing in the lift amount I wanted (20# or less).
c) Advertisements I don't like (this goes for anything I'm shopping for).
d) Poor customer service that seemed to be more than an occasional thing.

Blue Sparkle

*As it turned out, the rig I wanted was not really more expensive than many others anyway - and was less expensive than some - although it was not one of the "super cheap deals" that I think can be found.

 

[Peter_C]

Blue Sparkle, what plate are you diving that fits you? FWIW take a look at X-shorts for pockets. That is what I use for warm water diving in a wetsuit.

Unfortunately like most things in life there isn't a do it all plate for me. I dive cold water and wanted a stainless plate...except with doubles it makes me head heavy so I switched to an aluminum plate for doubles, and still have a Freedom Plate which is a dedicated singles plate made from stainless. In fact I poured another 6 lbs of lead into the rail of my Freedom Plate.

Scubapro also builds a nice plate and resembles a Halcyon plate to the point that one wonders just who makes it??

 

[Blue Sparkle]

Blue Sparkle, what plate are you diving that fits you? FWIW take a look at X-shorts for pockets. That is what I use for warm water diving in a wetsuit.

Hi Peter,

I have a stainless-steel DSS plate in size Small, and a Freedom Plate (which ZKY cut down by about 1.5" to fit me). The STA I have is an Agir-Brokk. It was the only one I found that had a top slot low enough to not raise the tank too much (it has three sets of slots vs. the more usual two). The others would all have put the top cam band much higher than it is with just the wing's built in stabilizer. As it is, now it lowers it by just a bit (or can, depending on where I set the tank).

I have thought about a lighter plate for certain tank/suit/weight combinations, but it's only in the contemplating stages. Other things are competing for my diving dollars, such as more training and/or one of those nice, quiet double-hose regs, or ... just more diving (Also, the small DSS plate only weighs 3.8 lbs. anyway.)

I was thinking about X-shorts, so thanks for the recommendation. I may make my own so that I have a wider choice of pockets, but I haven't decided yet.

Blue Sparkle

 

[koozemani]

Sparkle,

Oms has a good variety on both belt and drop down thigh pockets. I got a smoking deal on a thigh pocket that turned out to be ridiculously huge, but the Oms one seems to be a more reasonable size.