BP/W and weight systems

[Daryl Morse]

I have some questions about bp/w configurations and weight systems.

I'm currently diving with a low-end integrated weight BCD (a rental unit) and an AL80. I weigh 160 lbs and dive dry with several layers of fleece. I wear 32 lbs of lead, spread between the pouches (24 lbs) and trim pockets (8 lbs). I've estimated that the buoyancy of the empty BCD is around 4-5 lbs so I'll be able to shed some weight when I go to a bp/w. I'm planning to take the ANDI CSU course next month, which introduces the use of a sling bottle. I plan to dive with a single tank (possibly up to 120 cf steel) and a 40 cf sling bottle as an intermediate step toward doubles (maybe next year). I expect to get a different wing when I switch to doubles.

I've narrowed the choices down to OxyCheq or Deep Sea Supply. I've heard lots of positive comments about both. My LDS sells OxyCheq and they provide excellent service and support so that would be a reasonable choice for me. However, I'm really impressed with the design of the DSS products. I like their bp and weight plates, as well as their pro-fit harness. I just wish there was a local distributor so I could see the stuff first hand. For people using DSS products, has it been an issue not having local service?

What are the factors to decide whether to use 5 lb or 8 lb plates with the DSS bp? Is more better or could the 8 lb plates cause trim problems with a steel tank? If I go for the DSS bp with the 8 lb plates, I estimate I'll be down to around 15 lbs of lead (with an AL80). I estimate around 22 lbs with an OxyCheq bp and STA. I don't like wearing a weight belt, but for that amount of lead, is a weight system like the DUI harness overkill? Are there other weight systems that I should be considering?

Regarding lift, OxyCheq has 30 lb and 45 lb wings. DSS has 30 lb and 40 lb wings. How much lift is enough and how much is too much? Is 30 lbs enough for a 120 cf steel tank and a sling bottle? Is 45 lbs too much for a 5 mm or 3mm wetsuit? Is it unreasonable to expect I could use one wing for all single tank configurations?

 

[Lil' Irish Temper]

I have some questions about bp/w configurations and weight systems.

I'm currently diving with a low-end integrated weight BCD (a rental unit) and an AL80. I weigh 160 lbs and dive dry with several layers of fleece. I wear 32 lbs of lead, spread between the pouches (24 lbs) and trim pockets (8 lbs). I've estimated that the buoyancy of the empty BCD is around 4-5 lbs so I'll be able to shed some weight when I go to a bp/w. I'm planning to take the ANDI CSU course next month, which introduces the use of a sling bottle. I plan to dive with a single tank (possibly up to 120 cf steel) and a 40 cf sling bottle as an intermediate step toward doubles (maybe next year). I expect to get a different wing when I switch to doubles.

I've narrowed the choices down to OxyCheq or Deep Sea Supply. I've heard lots of positive comments about both. My LDS sells OxyCheq and they provide excellent service and support so that would be a reasonable choice for me. However, I'm really impressed with the design of the DSS products. I like their bp and weight plates, as well as their pro-fit harness. I just wish there was a local distributor so I could see the stuff first hand. For people using DSS products, has it been an issue not having local service?

What are the factors to decide whether to use 5 lb or 8 lb plates with the DSS bp? Is more better or could the 8 lb plates cause trim problems with a steel tank? If I go for the DSS bp with the 8 lb plates, I estimate I'll be down to around 15 lbs of lead (with an AL80). I estimate around 22 lbs with an OxyCheq bp and STA. I don't like wearing a weight belt, but for that amount of lead, is a weight system like the DUI harness overkill? Are there other weight systems that I should be considering?

Regarding lift, OxyCheq has 30 lb and 45 lb wings. DSS has 30 lb and 40 lb wings. How much lift is enough and how much is too much? Is 30 lbs enough for a 120 cf steel tank and a sling bottle? Is 45 lbs too much for a 5 mm or 3mm wetsuit? Is it unreasonable to expect I could use one wing for all single tank configurations?

I use a Halcyon Pioneer with 36 lbs. of lift, and a 6 lb. SS backplate and a PST 119 steel tank. That is more then enough lift for a sling bottle and a steel tank for me, and I'm 6'1 - 220 lbs. I wear a farmer john 7 mm wetsuit or a neoprene drysuit, and use about 16 pounds of weight in fresh water.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I have some questions about bp/w configurations and weight systems.

I'm currently diving with a low-end integrated weight BCD (a rental unit) and an AL80. I weigh 160 lbs and dive dry with several layers of fleece. I wear 32 lbs of lead, spread between the pouches (24 lbs) and trim pockets (8 lbs). I've estimated that the buoyancy of the empty BCD is around 4-5 lbs so I'll be able to shed some weight when I go to a bp/w. I'm planning to take the ANDI CSU course next month, which introduces the use of a sling bottle. I plan to dive with a single tank (possibly up to 120 cf steel) and a 40 cf sling bottle as an intermediate step toward doubles (maybe next year). I expect to get a different wing when I switch to doubles.

I've narrowed the choices down to OxyCheq or Deep Sea Supply. I've heard lots of positive comments about both. My LDS sells OxyCheq and they provide excellent service and support so that would be a reasonable choice for me. However, I'm really impressed with the design of the DSS products. I like their bp and weight plates, as well as their pro-fit harness. I just wish there was a local distributor so I could see the stuff first hand. For people using DSS products, has it been an issue not having local service?

What are the factors to decide whether to use 5 lb or 8 lb plates with the DSS bp? Is more better or could the 8 lb plates cause trim problems with a steel tank? If I go for the DSS bp with the 8 lb plates, I estimate I'll be down to around 15 lbs of lead (with an AL80). I estimate around 22 lbs with an OxyCheq bp and STA. I don't like wearing a weight belt, but for that amount of lead, is a weight system like the DUI harness overkill? Are there other weight systems that I should be considering?

Regarding lift, OxyCheq has 30 lb and 45 lb wings. DSS has 30 lb and 40 lb wings. How much lift is enough and how much is too much? Is 30 lbs enough for a 120 cf steel tank and a sling bottle? Is 45 lbs too much for a 5 mm or 3mm wetsuit? Is it unreasonable to expect I could use one wing for all single tank configurations?

Daryl,

Required lift is all about your exposure suit. Your suit is about the only that looses buoyancy, and this loss needs to be compensated for.

I'd recommend you get in the pool with only your dry suit on, with minimum air in the suit. Add weight 'till your neutral. In a shell suit this amount of weight represents the max lift you could loose with a 100% flood. (With a neoprene suit some of this lift will be retained) You need this much lift at a minimum.

As long as you don't add so much equipment, i.e. big steel tank, stages, crowbars etc that you can't achieve neutral buoyancy at the surface with no gas in your wing, the buoyancy of your suit pretty much equals the max lift you need.

Remember that given your estimates, you still would have ~14 lbs on a weight belt if you were using our backplate with the 8lbs weightplates.

This 14 lbs can be reduced as you add heavier, larger steel tanks, and or sling bottles. An al 40 with reg does not add very much weight, being only a few lbs neg when full.

If you are using a variety of tanks, a pouch type weigh belt is nice as it's easy to adjust your buoyancy. Belts also can help with trim adjustments. I like the XSscuba belt as it also permits removing a small amount of weight, 3-4 lbs at a time should I every need to ditch.


Regards,



Tobin George

 

[Dryglove]

I'll throw in one more thing about wing size. You also want it to float your gear on the surface without you in it if you dive from small boats that requiring climbing over the side to get back aboard or need to take your gear off at the surface for some reason or another.

I use a 40lb eclipse wing that floats my set up fine with a 6lb BP, 6lb STA, full E7-100 steel tank and 18w HID light.

 

[Tavi]

........................[snip]..................I don't like wearing a weight belt, but for that amount of lead, is a weight system like the DUI harness overkill? Are there other weight systems that I should be considering?.................[snip]...........

I don't like weight belts either!!

For singles, I dive dry with a 9lb BP, a 5lb STA and a PST 104. No ditchable weight. Trim is right on. Drysuit is redundant lift in case of wing failure and I carry a lift bag too. If they all fail I have a buddy (if they all fail, Murphy is really out to get me!!)

For my tech course one of the requirements was a rig with no ditchable weight. It could be real bad if you lost your weight at depth or inside a wreck or cave. With doubles and an aluminum plate I don't need any additional weight anyway.

Disclaimer. I recommend that newer divers carry ditchable weight. after much additional training you might not need it to be ditchable.

Hope this helps

 

[cool_hardware52]

Dryglove makes a good point, one I forgot. You do need to be able to float the rig at the surface. This actually part of another reason I prefer to have some the weight on a belt.

If you are donning in the water it can be hard to get into the gear if all your weight is on the rig, and none on your belt.


Regards,



Tobin

 

[DiveTub]

Zeagle make an excellent weight system for the backplate
Here is a recent review on them.
http://www.diveoz.com.au/gear_reviews/display_review.asp?RID=36

Cheers
Chris

 

[Daryl Morse]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I don't know exactly how much weight I need to sink in my drysuit, but a couple weeks ago, I sank the BCD, regs and an almost empty AL80 tank between dives. It took 6 lbs. That leaves 26 lbs to sink me in my drysuit wearing hood, gloves, mask, snorkle, boots and fins. The only other ballast was my lights and knife (no more than a few pounds).

As far as weight is concerned, if I use the DSS bp and 8 lb plates, I'll still need around 15 lbs on the belt. That's a fairly even split. If I use an E7-120 instead of an AL80, I'll be able to shed 4 lbs based on the empty weight. Would it be better to take it off the belt or use 5 lb plates on the bp? Would I have a trim problem with a steel tank and the 8 lb plate?

I'm still not sure how much lift I need. The worst case is the drysuit floods with full tank(s). (I realize that's not a very likely scenario, but it's not impossible either.) A full E7-120 weighs 10.5 lbs and a full S40 weighs 2.5 lbs. With 5 lb bp and 8 lb plate, that's 26 lbs not counting the weight belt or regs. With 30 lbs of lift, I'd probably have to ditch all the weight on the belt to get positive. Does that make a 40 lb wing a better choice?

 

[cool_hardware52]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I don't know exactly how much weight I need to sink in my drysuit, but a couple weeks ago, I sank the BCD, regs and an almost empty AL80 tank between dives. It took 6 lbs. That leaves 26 lbs to sink me in my drysuit wearing hood, gloves, mask, snorkle, boots and fins. The only other ballast was my lights and knife (no more than a few pounds).

As far as weight is concerned, if I use the DSS bp and 8 lb plates, I'll still need around 15 lbs on the belt. That's a fairly even split. If I use an E7-120 instead of an AL80, I'll be able to shed 4 lbs based on the empty weight. Would it be better to take it off the belt or use 5 lb plates on the bp? Would I have a trim problem with a steel tank and the 8 lb plate?

I'm still not sure how much lift I need. The worst case is the drysuit floods with full tank(s). (I realize that's not a very likely scenario, but it's not impossible either.) A full E7-120 weighs 10.5 lbs and a full S40 weighs 2.5 lbs. With 5 lb bp and 8 lb plate, that's 26 lbs not counting the weight belt or regs. With 30 lbs of lift, I'd probably have to ditch all the weight on the belt to get positive. Does that make a 40 lb wing a better choice?

Daryl,

26 lbs to sink you in your dry suit is within reason, comparable to what I've seen for others. 40lbs of lift would probably be the best choice.

Trim is a very individual thing. Tank and tank position has a pronounced effect. You might want to simulate various trim solutions by zip tying on weights etc. and trying it in the pool, until you find out how much and where you need the weight.

Regards,



Tobin