Black Ice + Atomic SS1

[Whiz]

Greetings all,

I'm new to the forum and also fairly new to diving. I've got 18 logged dives so far within a very short time and I'm planning to buy my own gear within the next month, since I've become pretty addicted to diving. Though I'm not sure if this topic is in the right forum, here goes:

I'm considering buying the Apeks Black Ice or the Aqualung Dimension. I've also come across the Atomic SS1, which seemed to me like a pretty neat idea (Octo + Inflator in 1). I'm not very technical yet with the hoses, QDs, and all that, all I know is from what I read in the SS1 manual, is that it's compatible with almost every BCD, due to the adapters that come with it.
I've also found out that it's fairly easy to replace the inflator hose that comes with the BCD with a new one, but is it really required to completely remove the hose? Isn't it possible to disconnect the default one (remove the plastic clamps and glue etc) and assemble the SS1 on the hose that comes from the factory? Do I need to buy a completely new hose and thus, remove the standard one from the BCD? (I understood that you need to glue it etc if you want to retrofit a new). And if so, what kind of hose would I need? 0.75inch? 1 inch? I'm planning to use a Miflex HP hose to connect it to the SS1, is that a good idea?

If my questions are confusing, it's because I'm pretty confused myself as to how this works. The assembly instructions for the SS1 don't mention anything about having to buy a new hose (and if so, which 1).
Another option of course, would be for the dive store to assemble it themselves, since it can be tested right away, the only drawback being the possibility that they might not have all the items in stock.

If there's anything I'm missing, please let me know, I'm all so new to this and the amount of options new divers have is crazy.

Regards,

Whiz

 

[Ryan Nelson]

Had the ss1. I didn't like it for one main reason, the safety protocol is different from 90% of the divers out there. If your in an OOA situation the preferred method is to hand your octo to the diver who needs air. Also that what the diver who's out of air generally looks for. When you have to hand him your regulator then use your octo it could become cumbersome under pressure in an emergency. It's not a bad design, just make sure your partner is on board with you before you dive.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Whiz]

Hi Ryan,

That makes perfect sense, I've thought about that too, which is why I opted for the Black Ice since it's got 4 release valves, I'm already used to dumping air through the top right one on the BCDs I rent. Would mean that with a new buddy, I'd have to explain him or her on how my octo works. Instinct is indeed to give my own regulator to the diver and use the octo, but in this case, the octo would also be coming from the left side, instead of the right side where it usually is. Seeing as we sometimes use the snorkle, this wouldn't become a problem right away but more a habit to get used to, I guess?
Nonetheless I understand your point in this and thank you for your opinion on this octo.

 

[skankpile]

People get the SS1 because they are cheap.. I can't think of another reason. A good (my definition of good) 2nd stage is usually about $220-300 full retail so your delta from a SS1 is not that wide. I think your problem is you don't know the difference yet and it just takes time and experience. Look past the marketing and flashy sales so you only have to buy the gear once.

My son (10 yrs old) just got OW certified and I put him in a setup with a Zeagle FH7 first and Apeks XTX 50's for the seconds. For his BC he used a plate and a DiveRite Voyager wing I was not using. He can breathe from any reg easily in any position, can change to whatever hose lengths he wants and developed muscle memory in a setup he will not outgrow. Any tech diver will immediately recognize his setup and can offer assistance without hesitation. He does not have pockets, flaps, strange dump devices.. and he is getting used to having easily accessable d-rings on his chest.

My daughter (12yrs) dives in a Zeagle Ranger, with Apeks FST 1st and 2 XTX50 2nd's. She does not aspire to ever become technical and many of the recreational people we dive with have similar setups.

Is one setup better than the other... it depends. In any case they will never have an SST

 

[claymore]

I had an SS1 for about a year and went to a standard octo and standard inflator. I did not like the reduction of head movement to the right caused by the corrugated hose being so short that the head could not be turned to the right. The other issue is dumping air from the BC while breathing from the SS1 can be difficult. Using your right hand to dump air is an issue because your right arm is locked with the OOA divers right arm to help calm the other diver and control the accent. Another issue with a Safe Second is that they are not standardized in control placement and size making it difficult for another diver to easily add or dump air in a stressful emergency situation, the other diver in an OOA or emergency situation may not be your buddy and be familiar with your equipment.

Another issue is that all Safe Seconds use a nonstandard inflator hose coupling, due to air volume requirements, so your SS1 will not connect to a standard inflator hose if you ever rent regs or your inflator hose will not work on a standard BC inflator.

 

[Whiz]

@skankpile

First of all, it's great you bring up the bp/w. I've considered this as well since I don't really like the jacket style of BCDs, this is why I opted for a Dimension or Black Ice, because I'm still unsure if I'm ready for that "next step". I haven't made a dive yet with a bp/w but I've seen them and even fitted one. I've read alot on this forum about BP/W and most divers are very positive about it, because of all the freedom and customization that it allows. Also, I haven't done that much research into BP/W setups but from what I've seen, there's ample posts and good advice on this setup. As a new diver, I'm hesitant wether or not to start using BP/W or just a jacket bcd. I don't have a problem with using a weight belt and a crotch strap isn't much of a problem either. From what I learned, you might even need less weight to go down, since the BP itself weighs already and you can attach weights on the back. Currently I dive with 8lbs and the dives we do are around 45-60 minutes tops at depths between 70 and 100ft.
Another reason I opted for the black ice or dimension is because of the freedom. I don't need all the pockets and so on because when we dive, it's only to hunt lionfish. Maybe bp/w is better for this?

About the regulator itself, I'll probably get a Legend or indeed a XTX50 or maybe the Abyss TR-22. It's not this I'm having issues with though, for I've been using all sorts of different regulators and indeed I can breathe as easily with any I've used so far. Also I've used jacket BCDs and hybrids but no wing.

The reason I'm opting for the SS1 is because it's both an octo and an inflator in 1, thus I'll become more streamlined with 1 less hose being around. That's the only reason I can think of. The hose will also be shorter than the reg which means that in case a diver needs air, I'll be giving him my own and will be using the SS1.

What I'm still concerned about, is that I don't know if I can just connect the SS1 to the hose that comes with a BCD, or if I need to purchase a new hose for it, because from what I read, I'll probably need to replace the entire hose, which means that I'll need to glue it back on if I replace it completely. Any1 have any experience with this?

 

[MrChen]

I have a Black Ice BC. I dive with my octo on a bungee necklace. My "octo" is the same model as my primary. I've got about 60 dives on my Black Ice and it still looks new. I do plan to move to a bpw setup eventually.

 

[claymore]

The SS1 comes with an inflator hose and screws into the first stage in the appropriate port.

The one less hose and streamlining sales pitch is exactly that a Sales Pitch. One less hose is not going to affect your steamling and if you are going to donate your primary you will need a longer, 40", hose on your primary, instead of an about 23", hose bowing out over your shoulder. You will also have the huge SS1, compared it in inflator, hanging out in front, and maybe banging on things, of you instead of an Octo tucked up against your body in the golden triangle with 40" Octo hose run under your right arm.

This subject has been debated adinfenitum on this board if you care to do some research on the subject.

 

[PeterNBiddle]

I had an SS1 as well. It sits in storage.

I will sell it to you for $10 plus shipping if you promise to sell it to someone else for that much when you decide (which you will do) that it sucks for all of the previously stated reasons.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Just eyeballing the corrugated inflator hose on a Black Ice, it does appear to be the same internal diameter as all other BCD corrugated hoses and as such an SS1's adaptor kit should work fine. Just snip off the zip ties holding on the Apeks LPI, insert the SS1 adapter of the correct size, and zip tie that in place. Now you can screw the SS1 on/off for easy cleaning of the BDC bladder and removal of the SS1 for storage with your regs.

It's cute when people assume all octo-inflators breathe poorly, when they've probably never used one, much less used one below 200'. I have, and I can say for sure that the SS1 breathes extremely well, and I'd sooner breathe off one at depth than the XTX50s.

It's also incorrect that most OOA divers will primly ask for an octo--at least outside of training. Experience has shown that almost every truly OOA diver is going to take the thing blowing bubbles right out of your ing face because it. has. air. In that case, the SS1 is a pretty good option.

A better option, IME, is the long hose primary/necklaced backup. The long hose donates easily without a giant loop of hose when being used by the diver, the necklaced backup is even easier to find when needed than the dangly octo-inflator, and you don't have to choose between a super dangly inflator and being able to turn your head to the right when using your backup.

tl;dr: long hose primary/necklaced backup > 36" primary/SS1 > 36" primary/40" octo