Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[divinh]

That would be interesting data, but even more interesting would be the reasons they closed, which I doubt would be obtained. A local dive shop closed last year because of the owner just couldn't stop creating enemies that included customers. Dive shops are businesses built on relationships. There is one dive shop in the area in particular that really understands that and there's a community of divers that is incredibly loyal. And for good reason. The owner is the most honest shop owner I've ever met.

Sorry, not dive related, but speaks on the idea of honesty with customers...

This goes with auto shops. There's one near me that pretty much goes above and beyond. I took my car in for just an oil change and they refilled all the fluids, checked the battery, tire wear, etc. When I needed the big mileage maintenance, I brought the car there instead of the dealership, which would always recommend a bunch of work and then put on the order, "customer requested ...", as if it was my idea. I would always ask if the "recommended" was necessary and they would just keep saying it would be "a good idea" so it was never clear if it was necessary (for safety) or something to line their pockets. If the auto shop ever recommended something, they would straight up tell me if it was necessary right away or something I should keep an eye on. The honesty guarantees that I will be coming back and recommend them to others.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I just got back from three days st Disneyland with the grandkids, wow! How things have changed!

So while I was there I had a chance to do a lot of people watching. I thought about this thread and especially the parts about millenials.
I even had some good conversation with my son in law who is a millen.
I got the impression that many are really struggling to find out who they are and where and they are supposed fit in to this society as the boomers have it set up. A lot of their feeling at the core are that the boomers are the most spoiled generation of all time, everything was and has always been just for them, they have sold out the US to foreign interests for money and greed, they taught and showed their children very little in life because they are too selfish and everything is still for them even in adult life, rather than pay attention to their children they give them another video game that the X’ers invented. This is only part of it.
And to add insult to injury, the boomers created a massive recession because of their greed and the whole bank collapse. All the people who did it are boomers and a few older X’er’s.
On top of that they took away many programs in junior high and high schools like wood shop, auto shop, other hands on activities, they closed pools, they minimized PE. In short, the millenials believe everything and all opportunities have been taken away from them leaving them needy.
It’s not the kids these days, it’s the parents these days. We should think about that.
So they really feel like they will need to reinvent a system that will work for them. We sold them out. There are no union jobs left, or good paying jobs they can work to get into because the learning curve is too great and the gap is too wide from apprentice to journey level. There are very few opportunities to “get in” unless you have experience, but there is no way to get that experience unless they are somehow given a chance. But nobody wants to train them because it costs money and companies need to fill positions with experienced money makers, not apprentices. The old system of cost cutting and low pay isn’t really working for them. They have high rents and the cost of living has never been higher. Student debt is staggering and many fear they will never get out of it. They really don’t like mooching off their parents. They don’t like being called soft. They were stuck in this position and will need to somehow learn the skills on their own to get out. As a result, many of them have had to find ways to get by in a gig economy.
Before we can worry about them getting into diving and supporting dive shops, they will need to get good jobs (or invent them) and earn the disposable income needed to do the sport.

Maybe diving isn’t their thing either, anybody ever think about that?
Maybe it’s something we like not them. And here we go again, YOU wish they would get into diving so that they can support a sport that YOU like so it won’t go away, because it’s all about YOU!

People watching at Disneyland was an eye opener. I have never seen so many overweight and unhealthy looking people in my life. There seem to be so few fit people in the general cross section of society that I observed. It’s mind boggling.
We really are not a physical society anymore. And many were young too, age didn’t seem to make a lot of difference.

 

[gcarter]

Sounds like a whole lot of victim mentality to me. The world isn't perfect, no. It is not the world their parents had, no. Just like their parents world was not the one THEIR parents had.

They need to stop blaming others and decide what they want to do. Their results are theirs. They can complain about what they have been given or they can buckle down and do something constructive. Complaining about the past is not going to change it. They have an opportunity to change it going forward, and that is what they should be focused on.

 

[tridacna]

All a matter of perspective. My millenial daughter is a software developer; My millenial son is training to be a surgeon. Neither complains about anything done by Gen Xers, the lack of woodshop at high school or selling our country to foreign interests. They’re too busy working.

Both have disposable income but neither is interested in SCUBA. Oh well...

 

[mdb]

Our two sons are millennials.

The oldest son is a team leader at a silicon valley software company, doing well, off to Costa Rica on
a company sponsored trip with his good girl.

Youngest son heads the Neurolinguistics Lab at U/M here in Ann Arbor.

His two sons seem to be doing quite well; happy and healthy.

The oldest Grandson, age 4, told me recently: "Pop, Pop, I know everything"
Of course you do, you are four years old.

Sport diving or so called "Tech Diving" is in a serious decline, not because of millennials,
just because that the dive retailers, in great numbers, have not adapted. The dive training
agencies have gone to quick courses and all the other things we have discussed.

I'll keep diving, as long as I can. I enjoy the weightless feel in the ocean.

I'm off to San Francisco soon, some good North Coast diving is on the agenda.

 

[TMHeimer]

Sounds like a whole lot of victim mentality to me. The world isn't perfect, no. It is not the world their parents had, no. Just like their parents world was not the one THEIR parents had.

They need to stop blaming others and decide what they want to do. Their results are theirs. They can complain about what they have been given or they can buckle down and do something constructive. Complaining about the past is not going to change it. They have an opportunity to change it going forward, and that is what they should be focused on.

Agree. I don't think the boomers are/were any worse/better than other generations. I'm at the tale end (almost too young) of the boomer time. Look what's going on now with most young people walking around with their heads in their phones, and on their computers, tablets, phones playing games all the time -- like, instead of getting physical exercise.. Who invented all this technology? I guess some "inventors" were boomers, and many were younger than that.
Then again, I heard way back in the 70s that kids watched too much TV, so Canada invented "Participaction",
There have been many theories as to why apparently young people don't take up or stick with scuba very long, something that hurts dive shops. It is what it is I guess.

 

[KevinNM]

There is a fairly small percentage of people who are ever going to be surgeons, software developers or rap stars. If the society only works for them you have the USSR, where 9% of the population were party members. The ones who buy into the myth that everyone should complete a 4 year degree, but are either not academically prepared or are intellectually incapable get stuck with $60K worth of loans that they get to pay off as a gas station clerk when they eventually fail out or give up are really screwed..

 

[runsongas]

when half of the so called middle class can't come up with 400 dollars for an emergency, spending that on getting a scuba certification is not a priority.

The Secret Shame of Middle-Class Americans Living Paycheck to Paycheck

 

[ljpm]

So I'm guessing that you are a millennial. Agreed on your statements, as one of the things I like about that generation is the emphasis on experiences over material possessions. The millennials finally got that one right as compared to previous ones.

So, I'm in Seattle. Water is cold, dark, weather sucks (hence my username). How can I appeal to millennials to try diving and investing in some gear so that they keep at it? What's the right approach? It is a tough sell, since most people going through OW just want to dive somewhere warm and sunny. Though there are good days to be had here, it takes a bit of resilience to not give up after not so good days. I do go on fun dives with students post certification, and provide my BP/W, regs, backup Shearwater. But they still need exposure protection.

Sell the experience. There is plenty to see in the colder waters. Put up as many hd images of things only seen in the North Pacific; wolf eels, glass sponges. Focus on the skill levels required to dive and see them. Team up with a few other shops and start posting videos (ads) to youtube of sights you can only see in north pacific. I may not be a millennial but have wanted to dive BC area ever since I saw wolf eels and glass sponges on a youtube video.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I’m 55 so tail end of boomer, beginning of X.
I never went to college because of life turmoil (on my own at 16) not cut out for it, whatever, it just never happened. Never finished high school either. I went to work right away to survive. I was never too proud to get dirty to make money.
Then I went to welding school looking for the big paying union job building Diablo Canyon Nuclear power plant. They shut it down just as I was getting out so it didn’t happen. Got into collision repair work instead as a know nothing. Jobs were hard to get because of late 70’s Carter induced recession. Journeymen wouldn’t show you anything because they didn’t want young punks coming in taking their jobs. You had to be crafty and sneaky to glean any information. We had to lie about how much we knew to get in, then learn on the job without anybody noticing and somehow pull it off. That’s how it was. I’ve been self employed now for the last 25 years. I decided to invent my own life and I did. So even an uneducated dumbass like me has a chance if you have any vision at all, a little skill, and willing to bust your ass. It’s a hell of a lot of mental and physical hard work.

Now days all the shops are starving for employees and giving huge start up bonuses, training for positions, sending them to school, and they can’t get anybody.
Construction the same way. For some reason millenials will not get into blue collar jobs, they don’t want to get dirty, They don't want to be uncomfortable in any way. Work is hard and they are not a physical generation. I think this spills over onto diving as well.
A few docs, lawyers, and jobs in silicon valley are the exception. Not all millenials are going to do either.
I agree that they need to stop blaming everybody, they need to make it happen for themselves because their parents can’t fix this one for them. There are jobs out there, but they’re not easy cruise jobs. They are hard work jobs but they eventually pay well. The one thing they don’t like is that they don't go in making the big bucks now. That comes from a sense of entitlement.

A baby born three hundred years ago is the same as a baby born now. It’s how they are raised and their environment that makes them who they are. So why are they the way they are now? Cause and effect.