Biggest thing killing dive shops?

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When I went to the Galapagos on a shop trip (I was an employee of the shop running the trip), the owner, the shop management people, and a close friend of the owner were on the trip along with several other employees and other customers. We flew to Quito, Ecuador, then went to the Galapagos. We were told we would have a very severe weight limit for the flight to the Galapagos. As we waited for that flight, many of us were talking about how hard it was to meet that weight limit. We had to bring practically nothing in addition to our dive gear. Some people, though, admitted that they had made no effort to meet those restrictions. The dive shop owner said his camera equipment alone exceeded that limit. All the shop's hierarchy said the same thing--all were at least double the limit. The owner's friend had bought a huge number of hammocks in Quito that he was planning to resell at a great profit back in the states. He had them with him for the flight.

Then it was time to weigh the luggage.

The owner conferred with the airport people and then made the big announcement. They would weigh all the gear together as one load. They would see how much they were overweighted as a total group and then divide the overweight fees equally among everybody. He said that was the best way to make things fair. Did anybody have any objections?

Do you think I voiced my objections to my employer, the aforementioned one with the MBA?

That is truly NUTS! Good luck getting ME to pay for other people's overweight luggage fees, especially when it's a preplanned and deliberately abusive situation! Moreover, this is doubly true for anyone rich enough to afford a Galapagos trip in the first place!
 
I dive Monterey damn near weekly if not more. It's the money...

Local shop on Cannery row was sold now it's closing down. I had looked into buying it and had a chance to look at some of the numbers. Rent alone was 3800 plus 600 for some kind of building maint fee and from the look of the building the money isn't going there.... So at $4400 , stop right there... Ain't gonna make it. Cost of doing business in California is staggering. Diving business is thin at best and getting thinner.

Fills have been historically a loss leader to get people into a shop. Cost of fills needs to go up to reflect it's true cost. Divers are weird about fills... They pay 10k for dive gear or more, take a day off work, drive 2 hours, $5 dollar bridge tolls, $200 a night for a crappy hotel, 6 dollar coffees, $12 for parking...... But oh no 5 bucks for a fill and they whine about it.

Cali penalizes the working class so bad most of my friends can no longer afford to dive. My little house is 2500 a month, gas 4 a gallon, massive sales tax, very high energy cost the list goes on. Sure one can make allot of money here but if you only make 100K a year you better have a few room mates to get by.
 
Curious to hear from dive shop owners or personnel on what might be the biggest factor that causes dive shops to go out of business?

Internet?
Loss of overall sport participation?
Increasing overhead?
Loss of a particular diving attraction?
(Regional problem)

We are expecting some potentially huge changes in Northern California as far as dive shops go, and not for the better.
I’ll explain in a part 2 after this thread develops a bit.

I haven't read any of the other responses yet so here's my un-influenced opinion with respect to how it works in the Netherlands:

I think shops suffer from a couple of forces outside their control and a couple within their control.

Exogenous factors obviously include economic conditions and people's travel plans. After the Tsunami in Asia in 2004 the diving market in the Netherlands took a serious nose-dive. People weren't travelling to dive. I will get back to why this important in a minute. Other factors I've seen affect the market were the worldcom bubble of 2000 and obviously the global financial crisis of 2008. When people feel they need to "not spend" then the first thing they do not spend on are optional luxuries like hobbies and travel. Shops have to deal with the consequences of this effect but cannot control it.

The reason that dive travel in the Netherlands is important to shops is because that's where the profit is. Training is normally done at around break even unless a shop decides to throw quality to the wind. The local diving market is limited but passionate but a great many Dutch people dive on vacations. This is the driver of most of the demand for training and much of the demand for equipment and shops that combine their activities with a travel agency generally do well on the travel side but are picking up the pieces on the brick and mortar shop.

Another exogenous factor for shops here is the large amount of competition. There should be a consolidation in the market happening but it's not. There are -- quite simply -- too many shops servicing too few divers. I think shops are too cash strapped to be consolidating. The ones that are, even to a limited extent, tend to do better because they can keep costs (for example pool time or the costs of running a compressor, which are not minor) under control while still *appearing* to customers as though they are competing with one another in other ways. Egos play a role here too.

Shops also have some things well within their control that they generally do not do. Shops that have a good presence on the internet (a good, well functioning webstore with sharp prices) move a LOT more gear than brick and mortar shops. Gear is a commodity. Full stop. If you buy a vest from shop A or shop B makes no difference because it is *exactly* the same vest....

What we see is that people will come into a brick and mortar shop, try on all the gear, decide what they want, get all the advice (which is given for free) and then go home and order the gear online, even if the price difference is only 5%. People get advice for free and seem to value that advice financially at zero. For a traditional retail shop this is a big dilemma. You can't turn people away when they walk in the door but you must meet the price point of webshops even with higher overhead. It's a difficult dilemma. What I see is that the best performing shops have both. They see the shop as a "show room" but actually do most of their sales online. One particularly clever entrepreneur I know has several web shops that appear to compete with one another online but they are all linked to the same back-end.

Third, I think that one of the limiting factors in the market for individual shops is the dealer system. NOTHING about being a dealer in the diving world is good for the shop. The dealer system with respect to diving gear is good for the manufacturers and shops are being squeezed because they can't get access to gear any other way. It's a cartel, plain and simple, and all the shop can do about that is get mad. Some are better than others at negotiating but most manufacturers are completely insensitive to the shop's actual business needs and just apply a policy of "chew them up and spit them out". Even if someone offered me a really good deal on a shop then THIS would be the one reason I couldn't agree to run it. You don't have control over your own purchasing policies and therefore you don't have control over your own business model. Why ANYONE would start a dive shop in that kind of an environment -- having to fight against a cartel -- is completely beyond me.

Finally, overhead costs vary wildly depending on location. Some shops want to be "visible" but that means higher costs. Some shops work in places, like in the Netherlands, where it costs €140 per hour for a swimming pool, while others can do their training in a shallow bay. Prices of running and maintaining vehicles in the Netherlands is a LOT more than it is in ... say ... Egypt, for example. The prices of everything from utilities, to parking to the price of parts, labour or even hiring an instructor teach a course are ironically vastly higher in places where diving isn't overly popular. This means that shops in these areas play with small margins AND with small volumes, which means that they need to be as efficient as possible if they don't want to sacrifice quality. Add to that that many shop owners are passionate about diving but not overly skilled in running a business and I think the picture is complete.

R..
 
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$4 a gallon for gasoline.... I thought electric cars were going to save the planet and California at the same time. @Mindset

All kidding aside, CT is no better. It is a shame to watch shop after shop close. There are a few left doing well. What I find the most disheartening is when you go to a LDS and they attempt to push you on the deal of the day or whatever they are currently promoting. I had taken some tanks in and they were helping carry some from the truck, the shop guy saw my G250's and said I could trade them in for the newest aqualung whatever it was called. I just laughed. I don't mind sharing some of my business locally if it makes sense. But I also do not mind supporting other local businesses, such as NE Scuba Supply, John is an excellent small business owner. Although not local to me, he is local to someone else. I try not to support the big guys, but I will if I have no other choice. Most shops local to me will do everything they can to save you from the online gigs. But they aren't afraid to admit when the savings can't be beat.
 
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$4 a gallon for gasoline.... I thought electric cars were going to save the planet and California at the same time.

All kidding aside, CT is no better. It is a shame to watch shop after shop close. There are a few left doing well. One just expanded, from a small house where they were for 30 years to a 10k Sq ft warehouse. They changed their business model and it is working well for them. Most shops that do well are very proactive with customers. They organize shore dives weekly with free hotdogs, to camping trips for the family, even vacation dives to all the normal spots. The diversification it what helps them, they really reach every type of diver there is. Then they do there best to keep them engaged year round.

The shop where I've been working organizes dive events every week. A couple of times a year they do a big barbecue at a local dive site. For the last few years one of the club members, who was a cook one one of those TV "top chef" programs prepared the food. That had a draw.

Even at that, however, you see the same 20 or so people coming almost every week. It's become like an extended group of friends that go diving together on Sunday. The shop can't float on that.

The big events are the college courses. We do a "dive camp" for a local college sports faculty once a year and train 20 or 30 people (students) in a week long event. For the shop that's a big deal -- especially since the odd one becomes passionate about diving -- but it's hard to find enough instructors for it because the camp is all week and there are only a few dive instructors in the Netherlands who don't have a full-time day job.

That said, these kinds of things are what small shops need. We recently did a retirement "party" for a guy that involved doing 50 DSD's over the course of an afternoon and then we went to a large local aquarium and held a dinner party in the aquarium (not diving, just surrounded by the aquarium) that was all organized and orchestrated by the shop. It was awesome and lucrative. The guy who asked us to do that was super happy and the shop made more profit in a day than they usually make in a week. Those kinds of things are the kinds of "out of the box" ideas that help this particular shop keep its head above water, as it were.

R..
 
People here that are toting the common "mail-order" dive shops (in the US) that are popular here on SB, there are three that are most well known, make it sound as if these 2 - 5 joints are the only ones to survive and all others to fail. They same people make it sound that if other dive centers follow the lead of these 2 - 5 dive shops and emulate their system, these suffering dive centers will manage to succeed else they are to fail and be extinct. All theories assume that the market there is enough business to go around if the dive center owners did the "right thing." This is a very wrong assumption, I don't think that it would make any difference overall. The pie isn't getting any bigger in the US at all, it is, and has been, getting smaller over the last two decades. The way bossiness is done now, more online sales, is different from years ago but it isn't expanding at all to support any form of doing business of any kind in the intermediate/long term.
 
I agree that the amount of divers here in the US continues to shrink and as a natural progression of that, dive shops are going to continue to close. There just aren't enough customers to adequately support the number of shops so they can make some sort of realistic living.

I belong to a very active dive club in my area. At one time the club was affiliated with a LDS but the owner passed away and the shop closed but the club has continued to thrive because of some very dedicated people. I go to the monthly meetings and when you look around, it is rare that you see anyone in the 20 - 35 age range and most likely the average age of the club is closer to 50 - 65. The reality is, younger folks just aren't joining the sport in a meaningful way. Like others have mentioned, there are too many other activities that compete for what dollars they have.
 
These same divers point to lack of confidence in their training and abilities to conduct their own dives and the idea that diving is about seeing pretty fish as to why they've never ventured into the own backyard seas.

Speaking of recreational diving, do you think what people dive for, so to speak, today is a lot different from what they dove for a few decades back? Might be interesting to know!

Richard.
 
Just a personal observation on why I chose dive shop I stuck with. Of all the dive shops in metro Vancouver they were the only ones that had their course schedule online. All the others said “call for details” or “get certified with us” with no details or just a price. Well one had a course schedule in which the last course started 18 months ago.

Same here. I initially picked the LDS that I use since they had a schedule posted on their website and looked like they were active.

When I told that to a different LDS they said that all of there customers prefer emails with the schedule...
 
Ain't gonna make it. Cost of doing business in California is staggering.

.

Yep, this. Taxes are ridiculous, State government has lost it's mind, Big (corporate) Business is fleeing the state to Texas, Arizona, etc., more people are moving OUT than IN to California, housing prices, etc. Lot's of dive shops here in SoCal, that for the most part seem to be doing okay, but not without challenges.
 

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