Question Best time for DM?

[Pbdiver84]

I am a newer diver considering going for my DM and AI. I’ve encountered a lot of derision around zero to hero paths, and wanted to get the board’s opinion on if I’m going too fast.

About me: got my OW partially through an adaptive program in early 2023, then fell into helping with an adaptive diving program. 4 trips and a lot of focused practice on buoyancy as well as rescue and dive buddy certification. On my solo trips, I’ve naturally helped newer divers out and often been the only non same ocean diver besides the DM (ex teacher). For personal reasons, I had picked up all the DM prereqs except official Night certification, which I did in conjunction with an OW cert trip from my LDS.

My above water skills and connection with newer divers or potential adaptive divers are strong… my in water skills are adequate. I’m currently a non-pro dive buddy, but starting as a DMC at my LDS would get me officially into the pro/shop side of things for working with new divers. I’m currently at 70ish dives, spread around the Caribbean and SoCal.


Would this be zero to hero, or would i be an enthusiastic diver earning certs and paying it forward?

 

[Pbdiver84]

Night Diver isn't a prerequisite for PADI DM. You need Rescue Cert., EFR, 40 logged dives and medical clearance within the last 12 months. It may be a violation for a shop to add something.

My wording was bad about assisting and leading dives. I meant it's a good idea to
get some experience in the places you may be doing those things either as a working DM
or in the DM course. Not actually doing these things beforehand. Just meant to say that I think it's
a good idea for a DM (or instructor) to be thoroughly familiar with the locale where they work-- more so than having tons of varied worldwide experience.

At least in SSI, Night and Nav are both required by the SSI standards. I know my LDS has additional requirements, and I’m fine with that because I want to hold myself to the standard they set, not the bare minimum to get the card.

 

[VikingDives]

Thanks for the new grate

You're welcome. I thought I knew your shop, and I likely know your instructor. . .

My perspective? You can absolutely do a DM/AI course at your dive level. Are you good enough? Should you? Knowing what I know about them, probably not, but they do a great job of marketing and making every diver feel like they're doing great.

I say this from a very humble position - I don't think I'm anyone's gift to diving and I know so many brilliant trainers and instructors who are far and above my skill level. That said, if you want a real assessment of your skills, I'd be happy to give you my opinion free of charge.

Most of what I've seen from where you're coming from is (as the kids say) cringeworthy, but I am game to give your skills a real world assessment - for no charge.

I'll also offer to let you dive with my students and make your own assessment of where you stand relative to them. TBH, lately I've trained some folks that I don't feel great about, but when I put them in the water and ask them to identify the instructor of an open water course vs. the students, they've said, "I can't see any difference" or "I noticed that all their students were looking at us."

From here is just a rant, and feel free to disregard, but I'm really really, really sick of watching half-assed recreational instructors teaching divers while they fin to maintain a position in the water and then take them to "the bottom" and flail about stirring up silt. For ****'s sake people. You're instructors! Do something useful for your students! </end rant>

 

[Pbdiver84]

You're welcome. I thought I knew your shop, and I likely know your instructor. . .

My perspective? You can absolutely do a DM/AI course at your dive level. Are you good enough? Should you? Knowing what I know about them, probably not, but they do a great job of marketing and making every diver feel like they're doing great.

I say this from a very humble position - I don't think I'm anyone's gift to diving and I know so many brilliant trainers and instructors who are far and above my skill level. That said, if you want a real assessment of your skills, I'd be happy to give you my opinion free of charge.

Most of what I've seen from where you're coming from is (as the kids say) cringeworthy, but I am game to give your skills a real world assessment - for no charge.

I'll also offer to let you dive with my students and make your own assessment of where you stand relative to them. TBH, lately I've trained some folks that I don't feel great about, but when I put them in the water and ask them to identify the instructor of an open water course vs. the students, they've said, "I can't see any difference" or "I noticed that all their students were looking at us."

From here is just a rant, and feel free to disregard, but I'm really really, really sick of watching half-assed recreational instructors teaching divers while they fin to maintain a position in the water and then take them to "the bottom" and flail about stirring up silt. For ****'s sake people. You're instructors! Do something useful for your students! </end rant>

There’s different shops you could be thinking of… I’ll keep silent on which one I’m with online.

 

[Zef]

From here is just a rant, and feel free to disregard, but I'm really really, really sick of watching half-assed recreational instructors teaching divers while they fin to maintain a position in the water and then take them to "the bottom" and flail about stirring up silt. For ****'s sake people. You're instructors! Do something useful for your students! </end rant>

There is just too much incentive to "money grab" by offering expensive certification courses to the bright-eyed eager and willing folks who fall in love with diving and want to rush to the perceived "pinnacle" of training. The mentality of the participant is "ooh, I love this and I seem to be doing well...so I should go pro ASAP so I can spread my love for this to more people quicker"...the shops and any independent instructors who take on these folks a sstudents for DM/AI/I are just capitalizing on the fact that these folks are willing to part with their cash and the shops/instructors are willing to take advantage of the state of mind before the glamor and wonder of it all wears off on the participant...

...In the end, we have a plethora of sh!tty or half-arsed pro level divers who are licensed to "train" and certify others. The certification agencies hardly care about the quality of instruction outside of their own published "standards"....for example, if they don't publish that instructors and students need to stay off the bottom, it won't be adopted as the norm industry wide. Of course, there are the outlying instructors that teach neutral and all, but that is the exception not the rule.

There is little incentive for the industry to change when there are folks lined up, chomping at the bit with minimum background and barely meeting the minimum qualifications to obtain professional level certifications.

Case in point: the notion that one can begin the training for a professional level certification while not meeting the required number of dives for the certification because the participant/candidate will attain that minimum during the training, is a very telling aspect of the quality of these programs and the so called "requirements" and "standards" of the training/certification agencies. Preposterous!

-Z

 

[Leatherboot69]

At least in SSI, Night and Nav are both required by the SSI standards. I know my LDS has additional requirements, and I’m fine with that because I want to hold myself to the standard they set, not the bare minimum to get the card.

You don’t need a night diving specialty certification for PADI but you do need to have logged experience of night diving, underwater navigation and deep diving, plus 60 dives.

 

[NothingClever]

Have high standards in planning and UW skills.

Clearly define a logical sequence of realistic, feasible objectives.

Be judicious with whom and how you validate progress.

Be authentic and intentional.

 

[TMHeimer]

At least in SSI, Night and Nav are both required by the SSI standards. I know my LDS has additional requirements, and I’m fine with that because I want to hold myself to the standard they set, not the bare minimum to get the card.

I agree with the NAV. Night cert. is good IF you ever dive at night. Or I suppose if you are DMing on a night charter boat.

 

[davecampbell]

There’s different shops you could be thinking of… I’ll keep silent on which one I’m with online.

why the secrecy? I can never understand when people come online, with a request for info or opinions, and fail to give all the details when asked for them. You seem to think that this shop is good (you're contemplating working for them) but you won't state which shop it is?