Best Mix VS Standard Gasses (split from a GUE fundies course report)

[stuartv]

What areas of diving does GUE not fit? I'll concede that certain things they teach are overkill for basic vacation diving, but I don't know of a single type of dive a GUE trained diver with the appropriate certifications couldn't do.

It's not that a GUE diver can't do "the dive". It's that there are a lot of dives (particularly, recreational dives) that are just plain simpler, easier, and less expensive (while still being safe) if you throw the GUEl-Aid out the window.

If anyone wants to debate whether they are safe, I invite them to provide statistics from North Carolina and/or Florida Keys recreational diving, where MANY, MANY dives are happening every day using non-Standard Gases (including Air) to support your claim that those dives are not safe.

I have personally witnessed a GUE diver (a GUE instructor, actually, with Tech 2 and some level of Cave, I believe) skipping a dive simply because they didn't have "the right gas", while I proceeded to jump in and have a very nice dive (using a gas that wasn't on the chart). His training stopped him from diving. My training allowed me to dive. I believe my dive was safe (as safe as any dive can be), but that is something that could be debated endlessly with no conclusion.

I have also personally witnessed a GUE diver get uninvited from a big technical dive trip because he ignored the emails about dive planning that were well in advance and then, 3 or so days before the trip, announced to the rest of the team that he was going to use Standard Gases and whatever ascent his GUE Tech training dictated. That's some really good teamwork right there! And let's be clear, the rest of the team would have been fine with using Standard Gases if he had spoken up when they were actually making plans. But, ASSUMING that he could just show up with Standard Gases did not help - it hurt the team. Bringing it up when he did was too late. Everyone else already had their tanks filled and ready to go.

You don't have to have GUE training or look at a chart to be able to determine gases to use that have appropriate END and gas density.

 

[PfcAJ]

Guys, people drive without a seatbelt ALL THE TIME. Totally safe. Obviously.

 

[helodriver87]

Sounds like a communication problem, not a training problem. The system only works if you know other people are using it. Can't assume that if people are from all different training backgrounds. And skipping a dive because you don't feel comfortable doing it a certain way sounds like a smart decision to me.

 

[stuartv]

Guys, people drive without a seatbelt ALL THE TIME. Totally safe. Obviously.

I can't drive that. It has a 5-point harness and I only know how to drive with a regular lap belt and single shoulder strap.

 

[seeker242]

You don't have to have GUE training or look at a chart to be able to determine gases to use that have appropriate END and gas density.

That depends on how you define "what's appropriate". From a GUE perspective, it isn't just whatever you personally want it to be. Some people think diving air to 150' is appropriate, GUE does not. If people don't like that, well, tough potatoes!

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Aside from the team chanting, wouldn’t it maybe be better to breathe gas that was dive appropriate verses what some chart said and for that matter, dive within your budget.

That's your call. I'll agree for recreational diving, but for logistics sake and more, I'll stick with GUE standard gasses for tech diving. I won't dive with those who won't.

Being an instructor, what’s the gain of taking fundies??

I see OW students in rental BCs, not DIR rigs. There’s enough going on and adding to the confusion I don’t believe helps anything.

Is it to be in better trim? I’ve seen the whole range of instructors and their diving abilities....there’s more than one that need to get outa the pool and dive more but that’s rare.

GUE fits some areas of diving, the problem is that a lot of diving and divers don’t fit what GUE preaches.

A number of benefits, including (and I'm probably missing a couple). Practicing appropriate skills on land, walking students through them before getting into the water. Easy communication at this point. Better utilization of pool time (very expensive in my area). Additional benefit is improving how to teach proper buoyancy. Teaching how to develop awareness. Teaching finning on dry land to get students comfortable with frog kicks.

You can carry over the lessons to jacket style BCDs. As I was told when I took the course "You don't have to drink the Kool Aid, just go for the skills." And I did that. I dive solo, sidemount, air, etc.. My buoyancy, trim, depth control all dramatically improved when I took fundies (I was a PADI IDC Staff Instructor when I took fundies, and this course was a cold shower).

Yes, the entire GUE philosophy won't be adopted by the majority of divers, and that's fine. But the skills, regardless of configuration can, and should in my opinion.

I stand by my recommendation.

 

[stuartv]

That depends on how you define "what's appropriate". From a GUE perspective, it isn't just whatever you personally want it to be. Some people think diving air to 150' is appropriate, GUE does not. If people don't like that, well, tough potatoes!

Exactly! Stop trying to think for yourself and do what we said in that table of gases!

What? Your experience has lead you to feel like you are unusually prone to narcosis, so you would only want to do a 150' dive using TX21/55? Sorry. Not supported. Tough potatoes. Enjoy diving solo, 'cause none of us will use that gas, therefore we won't do that dive with you.

 

[helodriver87]

Exactly! Stop trying to think for yourself and do what we said in that table of gases!

What? Your experience has lead you to feel like you are unusually prone to narcosis, so you would only want to do a 150' dive using TX21/55? Sorry. Not supported. Tough potatoes. Enjoy diving solo, 'cause none of us will use that gas, therefore we won't do that dive with you.

I don't think you'll get much pushback for using more helium. That's a more conservative decision. All the criticism you've leveled so far has to do with diving more aggressively than standard gasses allow. I feel like this isn't so much an actual concern as it is an attempt to poke holes by any means necessary. And it kinda shows a lack of understanding of the risk mitigation process behind standard gasses to suggest that more helium with an otherwise appropriate PO2 would be frowned upon.

Now, if that's going to be difficult to arrange/blend or alter the deco schedule significantly, we're probably better off sticking to the standard for simplicity. But there's nothing wrong with being a bit more clearheaded.

 

[seeker242]

What? Your experience has lead you to feel like you are unusually prone to narcosis, so you would only want to do a 150' dive using TX21/55? Sorry. Not supported. Tough potatoes. Enjoy diving solo, 'cause none of us will use that gas, therefore we won't do that dive with you.

Yup! Sayonara, Auf Wiedersehen, adios muchaco! Don't let the door hit you in the behind on the way out. And if someone don't like it, go home and cry to mommy because nobody cares if you like it or not. Be a man and suck it up.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

What? Your experience has lead you to feel like you are unusually prone to narcosis, so you would only want to do a 150' dive using TX21/55? Sorry. Not supported. Tough potatoes. Enjoy diving solo, 'cause none of us will use that gas, therefore we won't do that dive with you.

I think you meant 21/35. I’ll dive with him, especially if there is an overhead, current, and/or a camera in my hand. Though I’d prefer to be on closed circuit.