BCD vs Wing in adrift situation.

[BreeAbyss]

That's what ill-fitting jackets will do. My jacket doesn't do that.[/QUOTE]

It's extremely difficult to find a jacket BC that can go small enough to fit my stomach area good so it doesn't ride up but also doesn't squish and hurt or push up my chest to my chin. Like I said, different bodies.

 

[Bennno]

If you dive in places where you can drift off or get lost. Quit going there.

LOL, well, quarry diving gets boring after a while.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Why do I need to keep an upright position in the water? It's not even taught that way.

You can't tread water forever. So we're supposed to let ourselves sink a little, head hunched forward underwater, like a knocked out or dead person would float. Just float, and don't move. Save energy. Turn your head to the surface to breath. Only kick and surface when you need to breath. I can tread water for only 2 hours. But floating, I can do that all day.

There's no reason with a scuba unit that I need to do anything differently. Pop in your snorkel, go snorkeling. I can float along on the surface in a snorkeling position effortlessly. Kick back and relax. You can always kick into position to use a mirror, flare whatever you have, if an aircraft is near. Besides everything that wants to eat you, is in the water, not the sky.

Get a PLB, not a jacket. This is the silliest excuse for a jacket I've ever heard of. This guy would have been rescued quick if he had a PLB.

If you dive in places where you can drift off or get lost. Quit going there. Or at least prep for it with a PLB. I don't need a PLB for boat dives only a mile or two from shore. But no land in sight? Yeah, I'm taking one.

I don't know why he ditched his gear. I guess his gear failed and couldn't float anymore. Or never had the ability to float in the 1st place. Or maybe the diver is just a moron. Who knows? All I can think off is that a wing failure caused him to ditch and surface early away from his group, without his buddies knowledge, and nowhere near where the dive boat expected. But I ain't ditching anything that can float.

A PLB and a diver's life raft:

For Sale - Halcyon Life Raft - As New

 

[Bennno]

I have not given anyone advice on what they should use. I have only told of my personal use. If you want to dive with a jacket made of literal pool noodles, more power to you. I simply said the statement you made in absolutes was not so absolute.

Jackets are made from nylon fabric and PU and so are wings. Same stuff, difference is that wings are cheaper to make.
All this 'jackets are bs and w/bps are amzing' just shows that people wanna look cool and that marketing works, IMHO. Sure wings work, but are they better? mehh, not really.

 

[Doby45]

Jackets are made from nylon fabric and PU and so are wings. Same stuff, difference is that wings are cheaper to make.
All this 'jackets are bs and w/bps are amzing' just shows that people wanna look cool and that marketing works, IMHO. Sure wings work, but are they better? mehh, not really.

This is the same as saying all suits are made from the same material and they all do the same thing. While you are right, you are not right. There is something called "fit and finish" and that alone separates a $100 suit from a $1500 suit. Fit and finish takes into account the actual hand fitting of the suit and the finish takes into account higher end fabrics and details. The "fit and finish" of my BP/W make it so that I am more comfortable when I am diving. The same may not be true for you and that is OK. I do not have to force my wants and desires on other people as it is a waste of my time. As I stated before, you do you and enjoy your diving.

 

[Bennno]

There is something called "fit and finish" and that alone separates a $100 suit from a $1500 suit.

No

...into account higher end fabrics and details.

I think you'd be surprised if you knew what 'higher end nylon fabrics' cost.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Jackets are made from nylon fabric and PU and so are wings. Same stuff, difference is that wings are cheaper to make.
All this 'jackets are bs and w/bps are amzing' just shows that people wanna look cool and that marketing works, IMHO. Sure wings work, but are they better? mehh, not really.

Given that you apparently haven't yet succeeded in getting your BC into production I'm curious as to your sources concerning the relative costs of production.

As a current producer of wings, (16 models and counting) I have a front row seat for what is actually involved.

Most bc's sold today are "single Layer" meaning two sheets of textiles with a thin layer of urethane glued to the inner surface are RF welded together. There is no inner bladder in virtually all conventional BC's on the market today. Single layer inflatables can easily be identified by the "edge tape" sewn around the perimeter. It's like a piece of ribbon ~1 " or so wide folded over the unfinished edge of the main material that exists beyond the area of the weld.

Most wings OTOH consist of a sew outer shell with a separate inner bladder. The inner bladder may be a straight urethane film (DSS uses a custom made 30 mil urethane film), or a 200-400 denier textile with a thin layer of urethane laminated with adhesive.

Unlike a conventional BC a wing requires cutting and sewing of the "shell" usually about 10 individual pieces, and cutting and welding of the bladder.

Unlike a conventional BC a wing requires the assembly of the bladder to the shell. When the rf welder platten rises on a typical jacket BC it's nearly completed, not so for most wings.

Wings are also typically produced in much smaller volumes than BC's making some economies of scale available to the producers of conventional BC's impractical for wings. Rotary tables for RF welding, and automated cutting and trimming are common in the production of BC's and are essentially unknown in the production of most wings.

Tobin

 

[cool_hardware52]

Not the ones I tried. Do they even make jacket BCDs for doubles?

There are some "jackets" or "Back inflates" that claim they are fit for use with doubles. I have never seen one used, but I have had many long conversations with divers that bought these early in their career but found they needed a real BP&W when they made the jump from singles to doubles.

Tobin

 

[Storker]

Like others in this thread, I prefer the wing over the jacket, and I have yet to encounter any of the claimed disadvantages with the wing. Pushed forward, face down? Nope, I always lean back and lie atop my wing which lifts me well up out of the water since it's under me. Even when I was using a jacket, that was my preferred position on the surface. OTOH, I have yet to try a jacket which doesn't squeeze my stomach and chest to some degree if I inflate it fully.

However, since de gustibus non est disputandum, I see no reason to diss people who prefer other types of gear than I do. You prefer a jacket? Fine with me. I won't say that you're wrong, I can only tell you why I prefer the alternative.

 

[kelemvor]

Jackets are made from nylon fabric and PU and so are wings. Same stuff, difference is that wings are cheaper to make.
All this 'jackets are bs and w/bps are amzing' just shows that people wanna look cool and that marketing works, IMHO. Sure wings work, but are they better? mehh, not really.

My opinion is that your first post is right, jacket is better on the surface. But this one is spin because you've got overzealous in your argument. I first started with a jacket that was provided during OW class. I remember being able to fill it up and float with my shoulders out of the water. Far better if you're going to be on the surface a long time.

However, during the dive I prefer my bp/w. Mainly because there's less "stuff" around me and it feels better.

That whole "what if I got stuck in the water for a long time" has always been at the back of my mind. It is certainly doable in bp/w, but I think it would be a problem if I was in the water so long I had to sleep. In a jacket, sleeping would be totally doable I think. I'm hoping that good skills, my large SMB, whistle, mirror, and nautilus lifeline radio will prevent that from being something I ever get to answer.