BCD failure at 100 feet

[DCBC]

You do realize we are saying the same thing but using different terminology? We are arguing semantics, you are merely adding the ability to swim up your rig to the criteria for being "properly weighted". I consider it a separate but equally important issue.

Perhaps we should focus on this then. How is it a "separate but equally important issue?"

It's Archimedes Principle; if you don't have the buoyancy, you have too much weight. If you can't swim up, you're overweighted.

 

[uncfnp]

Edited...didn't want to hijack.

 

[DCBC]

Ok guys. I admit I am currently overweighted. On this dive trip with a 3 ml, my steel tank, my pony tank and reels, I am probably 2 or 3 pounds overweighted. That's with no weights. Short of switching back to Al tanks (not really a viable option for me) or carring less redundancy, any suggestions? As long as I can "swim it up" is this acceptable? I'll have to give that a try today...

You should be able to swim your rig up, although you may have to be prepared to jettison something. If you have a lot of gas and are doing a deep dive, you'll be in the water for a long time so dry-suits are usually required. If I use a dry-suit, I have redundant buoyancy in the suit already.

I do a lot of deep diving on trimix/heliox. The guy I dive with has a couple of dual bladder wings (DiveRite XT), one for doubles and the other for CCR. Another guy I've dive with uses two complete wings. There's quite a difference of opinion amongst technical divers on the usefulness of a double bladder wing. I carry an SMB; so I have that if I need it. I plan on kicking my way to the surface as required.

Whatever you use it's important to equip yourself for the dive you're doing and be aware of the hazards that a particular piece of equipment can present. For example, double bladder wings can cause difficulty when they both have been used (that's why many divers don't connect the second inflater and plan on inflating it manually if required). Not all SMBs have a dump valve; as they are intended to fill completely. This can cause too rapid of an ascent.

Different configurations affect the dive plan and how much actual weight you need. Keep in-mind every piece of equipment you use from a buoyancy perspective and adjust your weight accordingly.

As I've already mentioned, it can be helpful to have a small amount of weight separate so you can jettison it easily. Make sure that your buddy is aware of its location and that it can be accessed easily. Whatever you decide, try it out in OW. Many divers forget to practice their skills. Safe diving...

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Perhaps we should focus on this then. How is it a "separate but equally important issue?"

It's Archimedes Principle; if you don't have the buoyancy, you have too much weight. If you can't swim up, you're overweighted.

If that's your rule, then pretty much every cold water diver is over weighted at some point. If you are over weighted, then that implies you should use less weight, but yet you can't without loosing the ability to hold your stop.

Maybe your use of the term makes sense to you, but is does not to me. Just for the heck of it, are you aware of any agency that defines overweight as you do?

 

[Doubler]

Back in the day we used to wear a Horsecollar BC as a redundant system when Cave Diving.

 

[DCBC]

If that's your rule, then pretty much every cold water diver is over weighted at some point. If you are over weighted, then that implies you should use less weight, but yet you can't without loosing the ability to hold your stop.

That's not what I said; the diver should be weight adjusted to hold their stop. Unfortunately many divers to not dive within the parameters of the definition of neutral buoyancy that you and I agree upon. That said, if faced with the choice of staying at depth, or missing my stop, I'd choose missing my stop 100% of the time. Proper planning however can mitigate risk. That's what I've been talking about.

Maybe your use of the term makes sense to you, but is does not to me. Just for the heck of it, are you aware of any agency that defines overweight as you do?

I think what I've said is pretty clear. If Archimedes Principle doesn't make sense, what can I say? Your Instructor should have gone into it with you before you were certified.

Every Agency that I'm aware of requires a diver to achieve neutral buoyancy. This can be done (with a functional BC) if you're overweighted or not. The problem arises when there's a catastrophic buoyancy loss due to BC malfunction (as the OP experienced). No Agency trains for situations like this in their OW program. Regardless, Instructors teach in different ways. As I've experienced catastrophic buoyancy loss in deep water, I suppose that it's something that's important to me.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Every Agency that I'm aware of requires a diver to achieve neutral buoyancy. This can be done (with a functional BC) if you're overweighted or not. The problem arises when there's a catastrophic buoyancy loss due to BC malfunction (as the OP experienced). No Agency trains for situations like this in their OW program. Regardless, Instructors teach in different ways. As I've experienced catastrophic buoyancy loss in deep water, I suppose that it's something that's important to me.

So you admit your definition of properly weighted / over weighted is NOT shared by any agencies

FYI: I have never experienced a BCD failure. I am prepared for it and simulated one at 70', but I don't loose any sleep as I have 3 layers or backup (swim, SMB, partial weight dump). I have tested the first 2, not the last option). I often dive a dry suit to make the matter moot. So far my real problems have exclusively caused by brain farts rather than gear failure, something I think it typical.

 

[DCBC]

So you admit your definition of properly weighted / over weighted is NOT shared by any agencies

No, the Agencies are aware of what neutral buoyancy is. Overweighting of body weight and lead are typical of today's society. I believe Agencies fail to drive it home largely due to lower standards and shorter training times. Many divers don't appreciate how important it is because they have only known "the elevator" that they expect to always work perfectly...

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

No, the Agencies are aware of what neutral buoyancy is. Overweighting of body weight and lead are typical of today's society. I believe Agencies fail to drive it home largely due to lower standards and shorter training times. Many divers don't appreciate how important it is because they have only known "the elevator" that they expect to always work perfectly...

I agree they have discarded many important skills to the point of being scary, no argument there. We are disagreeing on the meaning of the term "over weighted", plain old semantics, not anything else. I have better things to do tonight, I expect you do too. Have a good weekend.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

In you definition, you mean dropping SOME weight, correct? But not all of it, correct?

I would think it means being able to drop enough lead to get to the surface by swimming. Maybe all of it, maybe not. Today I dove a big steel tank, a 13 cu-ft pony bottle, a 2 mm full suit, 3.5 mm hood and wore 4 lbs of lead. If I got in trouble, I could ditch all my lead and swim up.