Basic rules broken become near miss

[Kay Dee]

to read or re-read:
“Slow down young fella” — Attitudes in Technical Diving - SDI | TDI | ERDI | PFI

What an excellent article! Thanks for posting that link! Every aspiring 'tech diver' should be made (forced even) to read that at the start of each course (and truthfully self-examine just why they are getting into what their are).

And just as a parallel to that article; I did two years of OC trimix diving before I became a trimix instructor. After all, when experience counts, count on experience was my motto. By the same token, I got my first CCR in 1999, a Mk15.5. In the ten years prior to that I had been doing ever increasing length and depth OC deco dives, often in the 100m and somewhat deeper range. I then did 100, yes one hundred, dives on my CCR before I ever did a single deco dive on it (although towards the end of that familiarization regime I was performing 'simulated' deco dives, just to 'get ready' for what was to come). Overkill you may say, but I called it familiarization and ingraining new CCR related habits into 'muscle memory' (so when push came to shove - as I knew it would - they could be performed religiously without thought). And in the years since I can't recall ever having a problem U/W I could not handle / solve myself, and have habitually dived either intentionally solo, or same-ocean-buddy solo, on 95% of the dives I did on CCR (and that is thousands of hours).

I could rattle off a train of names, as many here could, of highly experienced OC (and some very well known) divers who are no longer with us because they thought that, once CCR certified (or even just OC trimix certified), they could go right back to doing the kind of deep ocean or long cave dives they were doing before - or saw their more experienced friends doing - and just pushed the limits of their own experience waaaaaay too far, way too soon, and paid the ultimate price; but that's another story.

Today, just as an allegory, it seems everyone wants to climb Mt Everest, no matter how inexperienced they are.

 

[Celt]

I would say that the dive plan wasn't as terrible as people think, but I am also admitting that it wasn't as good as it could have been. And actually you all are clearly pointing out another rule I failed to mention in my initial list which is "plan your dive, dive your plan". I made a mistake in this respect which is in fact what took the equipment issue from annoying or risky to dangerous.



My instructor was actually very reluctant and wouldn't take me on the course until I demonstrated sufficient skill. By no means was he greedy and was quite clear up front that he would 'fail' me if I didn't meet the performance requirements.

I messed up, this doesn't mean that I'm not still capable of performing any of the skills or tasks that have been talked about. To be fair you don't know me or my approach to diving, you only know about that one time I really messed up. On this dive I did get complacent, I broke basic rules, and as a result I have taken a step back to reflect and improve my approach.

I’m not trying to be smart here but you didn’t have a viable dive plan. The 40 meter plan could only work if there was no possibility of dropping deeper. You must plan for the max possible depth or be 100% certain you won’t drop below the planned depth if there’s no natural bottom. Your dive should have been planned for 53 meters it’s that simple there is no other viable plan. You done good to get out safely but sorry the plan was a fiasco. A dive can be as risky as you wish but you must know beforehand what you plan on doing.

 

[EireDiver606]

Your certifications mean nothing...your training and experience mean everything. Your training and experience are less suited to evaluate that you have the skills to complete a particular dive and more suited to evaluate from the perspective of whether you should do the dive in the first place.

You can't dive the plan if you don't plan the dive. As an instructor and someone with some tech training you don't have much of an excuse.

I think the best thing about this thread is that it removes instructors from the pedestal that many place them on by clearly showing that not all instructors are good divers or good decision makers. Instructor certification is like any other training in diving, in and of itself it does not necessarily make one a better diver. But the average person certified or not tends to believe that a certified instructor must be a good diver to obtain that qualification.

-Z

Everyone makes mistakes it’s what makes us human.

All the top technical/ explorer divers in the world have made mistakes, some of them big.

Just because a dive went badly or the diver made a mistake, does not mean they are a bad diver.

 

[Zef]

Everyone makes mistakes it’s what makes us human.

All the top technical/ explorer divers in the world have made mistakes, some of the big.

Just because a dive went badly or the diver made a mistake, does not mean they are a bad diver.

Dives going badly is one thing, divers making mistakes too....especially when one is the pushing the envelope of a sport/activity.

An instructor violating some pretty straight forward precepts for safety, that should be reinforced in his head every time he teaches a class/student, on what was not a an envelope/edge pushing dive, is kinda messed up.

The great things is the OP has lived to tell his tale...but he gets less slack for the screw up(s) because he is an instructor and should know better and dive better.

I stand by what I stated in my post that you quoted....it was directed at the OP and the larger community of dive professionals. If one is an instructor and they ignore basic safety protocols in their personal diving, especially those protocols that are a part of the curriculum they teach to their students, then they deserve a bit of criticism both directly and generally.

If you don't agree with what I posted above then we could agree to disagree.

-Z

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Everyone makes mistakes it’s what makes us human.

All the top technical/ explorer divers in the world have made mistakes, some of the big.

Just because a dive went badly or the diver made a mistake, does not mean they are a bad diver.

Absolutely. I can't speak for the experience of others, but when I started out with mainstream agencies (I trained under several), the training I received was generally mediocre at best (ticking off check boxes, but not truly mastering skills). I had no idea, as I had nothing to compare it to (until I learned more on the internet and took fundies). At the time, I thought I was okay. While I met standards as I shot up to IDC Staff Instructor (so glad I didn't wind up as a Tec Deep instructor - now that I know better, I refuse to teach tec until I'm truly an experienced and solid tec diver), fundies wound up being a well needed cold shower.

I was certainly a textbook case of Dunning-Kruger. I still am, but the difference today is, I realize there is a lot I need to learn and how to evaluate good technical instructors. Now I ask myself (and others), what is it that I don't know? What books/blogs/articles/etc. can I read to reduce my unknowns.

I did a 55 meters/180 feet dive on air, EAN50 and O2 for deco. It was in Lake Crescent to the Warren wreck (at 175 feet, so we went past it by 5 feet to deep unintentionally). Narced out of my freaking mind. Signalled my buddy "you okay?" He was like a cat watching a laser pointer and couldn't respond. I called the dive with the other guy who was on a rebreather. He said no as he had summit fever and wanted to reach the wreck (as logistically it is a pain to get there, but come on. Never refuse when someone thumbs a dive). I never dived with those guys again. Fortunately, I did have that sense. But that dive plan? What a joke. We had mismatched deco gasses (he was at EAN40 and EAN80). What a mess. But like the OPs post, fortunately nothing happened. But that doesn't mean continuing to dive that way is okay.

 

[Yeason]

But like the OPs post, fortunately nothing happened. But that doesn't mean continuing to dive that way is okay.

And this is why I'm actually glad I recently relocated. I want to keep diving and challenging myself but I need a group that is going to do it safely. These types of cowboy dives (like the one I was on) were almost the norm where I was at. I was on another dive with a different group where we went to 30-35m, racked up some deco, and at one point I saw a diver rush by me looking panicked and happened to see their SPG. We're still at 30m with 10 min of deco and she was at maybe 50bar. The point being this was a huge wakeup call to the things that I had come to accept as normal and OK, and a reminder that I needed get back to the rules given to me via the training. Just because I/they have gotten away with it for so long doesn't mean that it's a good idea. This attitude on top of my very poor decision to make an equipment change almost cost me my life, but luckily I stayed as calm and rational as possible and made it through.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

These types of cowboy dives (like the one I was on) were almost the norm where I was at.

I hear you. A friend of mine is friends with a bunch of guys who drink heavily, including the nights before a deep dive. They don't switch to trimix until 100 meters (not feet). Slowly one by one, members of this group die. Last one died on a 70 meter dive on air where he was separated from his two buddies. They see this as a tragedy. I see this as Russian roulette with more bullets.

 

[EireDiver606]

Dives going badly is one thing, divers making mistakes too....especially when one is the pushing the envelope of a sport/activity.

An instructor violating some pretty straight forward precepts for safety, that should be reinforced in his head every time he teaches a class/student, on what was not a an envelope/edge pushing dive, is kinda messed up.

The great things is the OP has lived to tell his tale...but he gets less slack for the screw up(s) because he is an instructor and should know better and dive better.

I stand by what I stated in my post that you quoted....it was directed at the OP and the larger community of dive professionals. If one is an instructor and they ignore basic safety protocols in their personal diving, especially those protocols that are a part of the curriculum they teach to their students, then they deserve a bit of criticism both directly and generally.

If you don't agree with what I posted above then we could agree to disagree.

-Z

Absolutely. I can't speak for the experience of others, but when I started out with mainstream agencies (I trained under several), the training I received was generally mediocre at best (ticking off check boxes, but not truly mastering skills). I had no idea, as I had nothing to compare it to (until I learned more on the internet and took fundies). At the time, I thought I was okay. While I met standards as I shot up to IDC Staff Instructor (so glad I didn't wind up as a Tec Deep instructor - now that I know better, I refuse to teach tec until I'm truly an experienced and solid tec diver), fundies wound up being a well needed cold shower.

I was certainly a textbook case of Dunning-Kruger. I still am, but the difference today is, I realize there is a lot I need to learn and how to evaluate good technical instructors. Now I ask myself (and others), what is it that I don't know? What books/blogs/articles/etc. can I read to reduce my unknowns.

I did a 55 meters/180 feet dive on air, EAN50 and O2 for deco. It was in Lake Crescent to the Warren wreck (at 175 feet, so we went past it by 5 feet to deep unintentionally). Narced out of my freaking mind. Signalled my buddy "you okay?" He was like a cat watching a laser pointer and couldn't respond. I called the dive with the other guy who was on a rebreather. He said no as he had summit fever and wanted to reach the wreck (as logistically it is a pain to get there, but come on. Never refuse when someone thumbs a dive). I never dived with those guys again. Fortunately, I did have that sense. But that dive plan? What a joke. We had mismatched deco gasses (he was at EAN40 and EAN80). What a mess. But like the OPs post, fortunately nothing happened. But that doesn't mean continuing to dive that way is okay.

Just to clarify, I’m not condoning anything that he did or didn’t do.

My comment is independent of this thread, it is a fact of life.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Just to clarify, I’m not condoning anything that he did or didn’t do.

My comment is independent of this thread, it is a fact of life.

I don't think anyone interprets it as such, but rather an acceptance of human factors in diving where people don't always have the hindsight to make different decisions.

Anyone who calls the OP and idiot and has never done anything idiotic themselves (and thus are hypocrites) have led very boring lives. I'll never forget some of my close calls!

 

[Kay Dee]

I hear you. A friend of mine is friends with a bunch of guys who drink heavily, including the nights before a deep dive. They don't switch to trimix until 100 meters (not feet). Slowly one by one, members of this group die. Last one died on a 70 meter dive on air where he was separated from his two buddies. They see this as a tragedy. I see this as Russian roulette with more bullets.

Wow! Darwinism at its finest it seems.

Would you be breaking any confidences if you told me what nationalities these folks are / were?

I do know that some nationalities (I am generalizing here) have a much higher acceptance of / towards 'risk' than others. Doesn't make it right or even acceptable, but.......................it seems to be proven by some of the practices and unnecessary deaths in certain demographics. But waiting till 100m / 330ft to switch to mix is just plain stupid, IMO.

Anyway, just wondering is all.