Banned from diving for a locked out backup computer?

[Scubaguy62]

Well, the guys at DAN (and all other experts I know of will disagree with you on this. The fact is, we still don't know how to prevent DCI/DCS accidents all the time. There are - in fact - divers who get bent that "did nothing wrong". I believe that if you'll ask Mike F here on the board he can personnally confirm that. I cannot, but I trust the data.

Ask me. I did two dives a few months back; 1st dive 64 fsw for about 40 mins, about 49 mins SI, second dive 42 fsw also for about 40 mins (I don't have my log book available at this moment to give specifics), both on 36%, and got a hit. At no time did my N2 loading graph got close to the end of the green, nor did I pegged my ascent rate, and my O2 loading graph had only one notch at the end of the second dive. My hit did not require recompression treatment, but it manifested itself after I carried all my gear upstairs, and experienced a nice case of fatigue. After speaking to a dive medicine doctor (the very next day), he suggested I monitor myself, and if I still felt fatigued, to go in for treatment. Luckily, I did not have to.

 

[Diver Dennis]

A legitimate question...

[1] Having 2 computers does not make the dive safer.
[2] Having 2 computers does not satisfy MOST dive ops (so you'll be on SIT while your buddies are in the water should you violate one of them) if one is violated.
[3] It's a good idea to plan your dives and dive your plan - 2 computers seem to indicate that there is no need (or intention) to do so.

I've never known any "but if someone wants to have one and can pay for it, why not?" to be a good answer.


Now... why should anyone dive with 2 dive computers? (oops! that's right, you already agreed on that point).

I did not say having 2 computers would make a dive safer. If you are using 2 computers with the same programming and you violate either then you SHOULD be sitting on the boat. A violation would indicate you are not watching what your gauges and if that is the case what dive plan includes running out of air? You assume that having 2 computers means the diver is not planning the dive. I assume that perhaps the diver with 2 computers is so anal that not only do they plan their dives but spend a great deal of time during that dive making sure they are following that plan exactly.

I use a Suunto AI Cobra along with a back up Mosquito. I also have a back up SPG and depth gauge. I also have an octopus and an Air Source on my BC. And yes, I'm that anal diver.

 

[Diesel298]

it will still function as a bottom timer regaurdless of all the other info it may or may not have in it....ive dove it as a bottom timer before, as it was doin its thing as a dive computer (not in gauge mode but i was using it as it was) i did a 40 minn dive to 130 FSW on ean28 and did my shallow stops on 50%.
haha it didnt like that.....but thats way off topic here

 

[Jarrett]

Wow, I had no idea this would generate such response. I left my initial post purposely vague so as to invoke as little bias from each of the camps as possible and hopefully get more succinct info. Thanks for all of it. Now here is the reality of the situation:

I've already bought one computer (Aeris) and I'm having problems with it. One of the problems is the ability to download the dives which is important to me. Another is the liberal nature of the Aeris. I am beginning to believe I would like a more conservative computer initially as I get into diving. Something that theoretically keeps me a bit safer.

So since I am unhappy with the Aeris a bit, want good PC interface software, and would prefer a more conservative algorithm; I am thinking about buying a Suunto and making it my primary and moving the Aeris to backup.

I am looking into doing some dive trips that include multi-day dives. I really don't like the idea of getting in the middle of this and having my computer die. At that point it would be hard to back track and figure out where I am in terms of repetitive diving. A few of the resort dives and live-a-boards I am looking into have this 24 sit out for locked out computer rule. And I have heard a few of those "my Suunto locked out for no good reason" stories.

So I am wondering if for some reason my Suunto gets locked out on one of these trips, will the DMs allow me to continue on the Aeris? Or is that even a concern?

Oh the last point, I am one of those high tech lazy newbies that don't see a ton of value in doing the tables when the computers do that for you so much better. I know that's probably a thread ender, but again, its the reality of the situation.

 

[jhelmuth]

I did not say having 2 computers would make a dive safer. If you are using 2 computers with the same programming and you violate either then you SHOULD be sitting on the boat.

OK - like I said... you AGREE with me. (I was just answering your question you put to me)

A violation would indicate you are not watching what your gauges and if that is the case what dive plan includes running out of air? You assume that having 2 computers means the diver is not planning the dive. I assume that perhaps the diver with 2 computers is so anal that not only do they plan their dives but spend a great deal of time during that dive making sure they are following that plan exactly.

No dive plan plans on running out of air, that's why you plan your dive and dive your plan. You are correct in that NO COMPUTER (or multiples) will keep you from screwing up (that's the only thing I assumed - that you are NOT a screw-up). Otherwise Darwin will take care of things naturally! Having one computer will NOT change or enhance your dive plan or its execution. Remember - it's only a back-up!

I use a Suunto AI Cobra along with a back up Mosquito. I also have a back up SPG and depth gauge. I also have an octopus and an Air Source on my BC. And yes, I'm that anal diver.

Well... I take it that inspite of agreeing with my earlier statement, you like to dive 2 computers. Why? Please explain what it solves or does for you?

 

[diver_paula]

Why I dive with 2 computers....

In case one fails the other has been in the water with me and I don't have to sit out before starting to dive using tables. Note I said FAIL as in the battery unexpectedly wore out, the computer got crushed some how, it sprung a leak, anything other than I violated it's profile. I'd hate to be on a charter or God-help me a week long SCUBA trip and have to sit out in the middle for a failed computer.

Also, I must admit a second computer was not something I purchased early on. I started by diving the tables using a depth gauge and bottom timer. Learned the tables backward and forwards. A few years later I purchased my first Suunto. However, I hose mounted it and kept the original analog gauges. A couple years later I bought a second backup Suunto with a new console. So it's a console with one Suunto in it and the other hose mounted.

 

[jhelmuth]

Wow, I had no idea this would generate such response. I left my initial post purposely vague so as to invoke as little bias from each of the camps as possible and hopefully get more succinct info. Thanks for all of it. Now here is the reality of the situation:

I've already bought one computer (Aeris) and I'm having problems with it. One of the problems is the ability to download the dives which is important to me. Another is the liberal nature of the Aeris. I am beginning to believe I would like a more conservative computer initially as I get into diving. Something that theoretically keeps me a bit safer.

So since I am unhappy with the Aeris a bit, want good PC interface software, and would prefer a more conservative algorithm; I am thinking about buying a Suunto and making it my primary and moving the Aeris to backup.

I am looking into doing some dive trips that include multi-day dives. I really don't like the idea of getting in the middle of this and having my computer die. At that point it would be hard to back track and figure out where I am in terms of repetitive diving. A few of the resort dives and live-a-boards I am looking into have this 24 sit out for locked out computer rule. And I have heard a few of those "my Suunto locked out for no good reason" stories.

So I am wondering if for some reason my Suunto gets locked out on one of these trips, will the DMs allow me to continue on the Aeris? Or is that even a concern?

Oh the last point, I am one of those high tech lazy newbies that don't see a ton of value in doing the tables when the computers do that for you so much better. I know that's probably a thread ender, but again, its the reality of the situation.

No... MOST dive ops will NOT let you dive if one of them is violated. Figure out which one you want, then sell/give away/destroy the other (ebay is full of 'em).
ALL dive ops will alow you to continue to dive IF...
#1 - they allow diving without a computer to begin with AND...
#2 - you've been planning your dives and loggin them correctly and can dmonstrate it to them (proving that the computer was just your backup) AND...
#3 - you have a timer, SPG, and depth gauge.

The value in doing the tables comes with experience. I personnaly realized this several years ago when I had a computer die on me and I had been relying on it more than my planning. I soon changed that and have found that this was a better way to dive. I don't need a computer to dive (sometimes that is required anyway by the dive op). But I don't sweat a dive compurt failure... I know my tables, planning, and what works for me.

 

[ianr33]

Put the backup in a pocket,a dive op will never see it.

 

[jhelmuth]

Put the backup in a pocket,a dive op will never see it.

That's only works in his scenario if it's the one that is violated. If the dive op sees the violated one, he's screwed.


Jim

 

[Diver Dennis]

Diver Paula hit the nail on the head. A back up computer is no different from having other back up equipment. If one fails you can use the other. As I said I'm quite anal when it comes to things like diving and if I can have back up equipment that I can add to my set up that does not inhibit me while diving, why not?
As far as needing something, most divers can get by with basic equipment. They do not NEED to have that top of the line reg or BC but how can you fault them for getting it? I'm not looking for a fight here but as you pointed to my statement "If they can afford it, why not?", saying they should not have something because they don't "need" it is not much different.