JeffG
Contributor
hey...you had your resume posted (or at least linked to) mr Unix system analyst mambi pambi guy...you can afford this stuff.lamont:
Banned from diving for a locked out backup computer?
- Thread starter Jarrett
- Start date
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I agree somewhat. Things happen for a reason. But, it may be something not obvious like working too hard at depth. There is a definition in my training manuals for undeserved hits and it comes down to playing with statistics too much.
Undeserved hits are things like being overtired (none of us have ever driven three hours starting 4 or 5 in the morning to catch a boat, Right?), cold water, sea-sick leading to slight dehydration (none of us jump into the water to kill off that queasy feeling, eh? ), an old injury limiting circulation to an area of the body, medication that we forget about. In other words, they are hits where the person basically wasn't so reckless that most of us would use the term "asking for it".
The bottom line is that every time that we go under twenty ft. we are running a risk of DCS. We choose to minimize that risk with good diving practices, but sometimes one or more of the risk factors is/are too great and someone gets hit. I have dove with one person who didn't realize what the ASC on the Mosquito meant and surfaced with ten minutes of deco left (The person has a breathing rate that most divers would kill to have, had an eighty on her back, and was not yet nitrox certified. She was diving air next to a bunch of people diving EAN36 and EAN 40.) If that person had gotten bent, most of us would say that it was "deserved" hit. As it was, many people (including myself) called her lucky.
So, yes all hits have a reason. But, many have more reason to occur than others
. If you have to scratch your head and figure out why the person took a DCS hit, it is closer to "underdeserved" than "deserved".
Undeserved hits are things like being overtired (none of us have ever driven three hours starting 4 or 5 in the morning to catch a boat, Right?), cold water, sea-sick leading to slight dehydration (none of us jump into the water to kill off that queasy feeling, eh? ), an old injury limiting circulation to an area of the body, medication that we forget about. In other words, they are hits where the person basically wasn't so reckless that most of us would use the term "asking for it".
The bottom line is that every time that we go under twenty ft. we are running a risk of DCS. We choose to minimize that risk with good diving practices, but sometimes one or more of the risk factors is/are too great and someone gets hit. I have dove with one person who didn't realize what the ASC on the Mosquito meant and surfaced with ten minutes of deco left (The person has a breathing rate that most divers would kill to have, had an eighty on her back, and was not yet nitrox certified. She was diving air next to a bunch of people diving EAN36 and EAN 40.) If that person had gotten bent, most of us would say that it was "deserved" hit. As it was, many people (including myself) called her lucky.
So, yes all hits have a reason. But, many have more reason to occur than others
. If you have to scratch your head and figure out why the person took a DCS hit, it is closer to "underdeserved" than "deserved".JeffG:
lamont:
I own both of those computers for a reason. You can guess the reason that I might own a VR3. I don't just use it to do technical diving. I bought it, I use it. Actually there are two reasons for a VR3, but I don't have the disposable income for the second reason until next year
.I bought the VyTec when I started doing deco on EAN50 and didn't feel like spending money on a new bottom timer when I already owned a perfectly good one once I put the VyTec in gauge mode for technical dives.
lamont
Contributor
JeffG:
That's my _desired_ salary... in NYC... not my current one in Seattle...
Getting back to the dive computer topic though... Yeah, the computers that hit you up with 50% O2 and 79% N2 to punish you for not entering your nitrox settings are pretty stupid. Suuntos don't do that, though. You can wind up doing air deco when you're on nitrox, but that isn't too bad. Hang for 10-15 mins and it clears and you'd be in wonderful shape for your next dive (although the suunto would punish you for going into deco, but that's no reason to violate its ceiling...). BTDT. I forget to set my computer to nitrox all the time and don't violate it...
JeffG
Contributor
I agree with what you are saying. And most of it boils down to semantics.diverbrian:
This is getting beyond the question asked, but what the hay. I think every diver should know why/how their computer works. If I go out boozing the night before a dive, I should understand that my body might not be in the best shape to on/off gas and my computer has no idea what I have been doing to my body.
Now...unfortunatly you can have a guy who drinks, smokes, and gets jiggy with it...and he will think his computer will protect him. If he gets bent its "undeserved"...BS...he was asking for it. (ok...thats a huge oversimplification of the issue, but maybe you will understand what I am talking about)
Jarrett:
Well, firstly I've never had a dive operation ask to see my computer to check if it's locked out...
But anyway, computers don't lock out because you've done a lot of dives, they lock out if you do a fast ascent or miss deco, and if you do that you should accept the lock out and not dive.
JeffG
Contributor
But what if one is locked and the other isn't (In this thread we are carrying two computers)BarryNL:
JeffG:
For what it's worth I believe the Oceanic "feature" that defaults to 50% can be turned off. When that's the case the O2 setting will simply stay the same as the last time you set it. I have the Oceanic Veo 200 and I think the one you are referring to works the same.
JeffG
Contributor
Yep that was the model. My brother got it as a hand me down. But the moral of the story is that lock outs and other oddities are usually user created.gcbryan:
To the thread starter:
The PADI table will have you back in group A in 2,5 hours (regardless). Not even on liveaboards with up to 4 dives a day have the dives been this close (I´ve only been on 3 though so YMMV). If you didn´t bend your comp, you´ll have no problem. If you bent it because of a user error ie wrong ean-setting, most will still work as bottomtimers so you go back to tables...
IF what you´re really asking is: I´m planning on buying a Suunto, I don´t want to sell the comp I have, is there some way I can motivate keeping my old comp on my wrist while still using the new sparkly Suunto?
Then, IMO, the answer is no...
I´ve been diving with Suunto´s for about 5 years now...the only times I´ve bent one is when I did something it couldn´t handle (tmx dives without setting it gauge mode, wrong eanx, general decompression diving etc)...A lot of people talk about how conservative Suunto´s are...for me (and it seems for you) thats one of the reasons that I bought it!
To me someone who´s bent a Suunto has either:
A: Set it wrong
B: Dived wrong
If A, then use it as a BT.
If B, sit out the rest of the dives that day.
Also, as a reminder, following a Suunto is no guarantee that you will not get bent! Doing something (stupid) before, during or after the dive that the computer doesent (cant) know about could still get you bent!
The PADI table will have you back in group A in 2,5 hours (regardless). Not even on liveaboards with up to 4 dives a day have the dives been this close (I´ve only been on 3 though so YMMV). If you didn´t bend your comp, you´ll have no problem. If you bent it because of a user error ie wrong ean-setting, most will still work as bottomtimers so you go back to tables...
IF what you´re really asking is: I´m planning on buying a Suunto, I don´t want to sell the comp I have, is there some way I can motivate keeping my old comp on my wrist while still using the new sparkly Suunto?
Then, IMO, the answer is no...
I´ve been diving with Suunto´s for about 5 years now...the only times I´ve bent one is when I did something it couldn´t handle (tmx dives without setting it gauge mode, wrong eanx, general decompression diving etc)...A lot of people talk about how conservative Suunto´s are...for me (and it seems for you) thats one of the reasons that I bought it!
To me someone who´s bent a Suunto has either:
A: Set it wrong
B: Dived wrong
If A, then use it as a BT.
If B, sit out the rest of the dives that day.
Also, as a reminder, following a Suunto is no guarantee that you will not get bent! Doing something (stupid) before, during or after the dive that the computer doesent (cant) know about could still get you bent!
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