Bad Dive Master

[BDub]

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, I don't know who is going to tell you that you have "mastered" a skill, and should do so before moving on. It isn't going to be the dive shop or any instructors that I have seen. Who would you work for if you kept telling students that they weren't ready to spend more money at the dive shop? Doesn't take too many students to complain about that before the dive shop will find someone willing to tell students to spend more money. Sure, there are those out there, but they are few and far between.

Gotta agree with Bob on this one. Depends on the instructor AND the lds. If a student isn't ready to go to the open water, they won't go, but they are more than welcome to join the next class (yes, they will have to pay for their spot in the pool) if there are spots open, and we'll do our best to have extra staff to help them through.

I've had OW students go through 4 different class pool sessions before they were able to go to their Open Water dives. Likewise I've had students do fine in the pool, but then needed extra dives in the Open Water, which we piggybacked on 2-3 subsequent classes. I've also done more than the required 6 dives for the Advanced Course to get the student to the level I expect when they finish that class.

I also have no problem doing an assessment dive with a student, then tell them they'd get more out of the class if they did some "fun" dives on their own, I just did this with a Master Diver student. You're doing the student a disservice by not doing this.

I think a lot of it is how it's presented to the student. If they understand why they aren't ready for the next class, or able to pass the current class, they'll respect that class more and will have more sense of accomplishment when they do pass. If they do quit and don't pass (I'll teach them til they quit as well), they know why they didn't pass and that it truly is for their own safety.

There is absolutely no pressure from the shop I teach through to pass a student if they aren't performing each skill proficiently. While I do know of instructors who will pass students regardless, most instructors in the area that I know personally would never pass a student who isn't proficient, in any course.

 

[gcbryan]

Since DM's aren't usually used on boat dives here the only use for them is in assisting an instructor with OW classes. Since instructors need DM's more than DM's need instructors it seems to me a lot of DM's make it through the system with not so great skills.

 

[kent_1848]

It totally depends on the instructor ... and the relationship they have with the LDS. I know several instructors who will not pass someone who hasn't demonstrated the requisite skills in an appropriate fashion.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Demonstrating a skill, and mastering a skill are two very different things though.

 

[mntdiver]

To the issue of learning to dive and straight to DM/Instructor, we call them Shake 'n Bake DM's and instructors. See it too often in the retail side of the industry and in resorts and shops with rapid turnover. I crack up whenever I hear some young instructor giving his/her expert opinion on equipment and methodology that they obviously have no experience in. I see it all the time with full face masks.

 

[pilot fish]

Demonstrating a skill, and mastering a skill are two very different things though.

That is absolutely correct. You can demonstrate a skill to pass a test for a C card but you will not become proficient in it without practice, and you can only practice by diving. Divers that do OW and AOW together, then with less than 20 dives go for Rescue and on and on, till their pockets fill with C cards, have little to no proficiency. I would rate an OW diver with 150 to 200 dives higher in dive proficiency than a DM with 40 dives.

 

[The Kraken]

My question with respect to "bad dive masters" would be this, understanding that the divemasters discussed in the author's initial post are agency certified divemasters:

Generally speaking, most of the complaints about divemasters come from bad experiences on dive trips to foreign ports.

Now, are the "divemasters" divemasters in the agency qualified sense, or are the "divemasters" in the sense that they lead the dive?

One may have a "divemaster" who is nothing more than a local diver hired to go down, tie off or set the anchor, and lead the flock through the underwater pasture.

Perhaps, in many cases, too much credence is given the divemaster and his perceived abilities.

the K

 

[Kim]

I would rate an OW diver with 150 to 200 dives higher in dive proficiency than a DM with 40 dives.

You would? I've seen divers with 10 dives who had better skills than some people with over a 100. The number of dives often indicates nothing, it can even be a problem. Someone who thinks they 'know it all' because they have 100 dives occasionally can display an attitude problem that is very scary. Newer divers often seem to take things more carefully - if they paid attention to their classes and actually learnt what was being taught.

 

[pilot fish]

You would? I've seen divers with 10 dives who had better skills than some people with over a 100. The number of dives often indicates nothing, it can even be a problem. Someone who thinks they 'know it all' because they have 100 dives occasionally can display an attitude problem that is very scary. Newer divers often seem to take things more carefully - if they paid attention to their classes and actually learnt what was being taught.

Yes, I've seen that too. Your point is well taken. I should have qualified my statement to read, 150 to 200 dives and is CURRENT. Someone with 150 dives but has not dove in 4 years is really starting almost fresh again.

 

[pilot fish]

My question with respect to "bad dive masters" would be this, understanding that the divemasters discussed in the author's initial post are agency certified divemasters:

Generally speaking, most of the complaints about divemasters come from bad experiences on dive trips to foreign ports.

Now, are the "divemasters" divemasters in the agency qualified sense, or are the "divemasters" in the sense that they lead the dive?

One may have a "divemaster" who is nothing more than a local diver hired to go down, tie off or set the anchor, and lead the flock through the underwater pasture.

Perhaps, in many cases, too much credence is given the divemaster and his perceived abilities.

the K

very well said and accurate. I think that a lot of dive masters in foreign places are in fact not DM's but just another diver that knows that local spot but has no more dive skills that the other divers. If they are calling a person a DM they should actually be a DM.

 

[Kim]

I should have qualified my statement to read, 150 to 200 dives and is CURRENT. Someone with 150 dives but has not dove in 4 years is really starting almost fresh again.

Not even that. Doing the same thing wrong time after time doesn't make it any better or safer. If the skill was never learnt to start with (or learnt incorrectly), it's not like it magically appears because you dive more! The number of dives as a judgement of anyones skill level is more or less useless IMO.