Bad Dive Master

[gcbryan]

That's the million dollar question ... ain't it.

Unfortunately, all we have to go on is a somewhat unspecific account by one diver ... who seems to have dropped out of the conversation, by the way.

Having read his account, I asked some pointed questions that might help shed light on the topic ... unfortunately, they remain unanswered.

Without knowing more about the circumstances, it's impossible to know whether the DM was good or bad ... or whether the person in question was actually a DM at all ... we've only heard one side of the story. And since DM's don't typically work on charter boats around here, there's some question in my mind that the story is what it appears to be.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I know more details but not enough. I just met the original poster the other night (14 year old male) and I know his father a little. Like you this post didn't make much sense to me and still doesn't entirely.

The dive was Fox Island and Zee's Reef. I believe the problem occured on Zee's Reef. The charter was Teal Charter and there were several younger divers on board (11 years old, 14 years old, and maybe others). The charter company upon hearing that kids would be onboard provided 3 DM's at no charge. I don't know anything about the DM's.

There was a very large exchange last weekend (-2 to +12) which would have made the second dive (Zee's Reef) occur not at slack and with a large exchange. That would have made finding and staying on the wall a little difficult. Regarding the lady who dropped like a rock and passed out in talking to the OP's father in a dive store the next day it seems she was very overweighted and not so skilled as a diver as she through panic or whatever wasn't able to hit her BC inflate button although it was connected. She passed out at the bottom and doesn't remember anything until they got her on deck. Maybe panic contributed to CO2 build up who knows.

The DM's seemed to be worse than the other divers. I personally think from what I heard that the captain probably did nothing wrong other than take a boat load of kids to a site with current on a large exchange day.

This is the best I can make of what I have been told. The part in the OP about the captain causing divers to do bounce dives I can't make any sense of.

 

[ScubaDivaDivemaster]

I agree, it's hard to tell with limited knowledge. I've been on many dives with terrible DM's, sad to say. That comes from someone with almost 300 dives. (And no, they were NOT in the pool, silly guys, I knew what you were thinking).

I had a DM take us into a ripping current (well, try to) with two newly certified divers on their first "real" dive after cert class. After I got in and almost got ripped off the line my dive buddy so "he*! NO" and we aborted the dive. The two newbies were white as a sheet, they were nervous to begin with. The DM then had to dive in and get the spearfisherman that was on the boat with us and bring him back. Yep, you heard right. Spearfisher on a dive boat. I know it happens and some people don't care, but I don't feel like getting shot on a wreck dive. Oh yeah, they were taking the newbies on a 90 foot wreck dive. Hmmm...:huh:

I won't continue, it only gets worse.
Go figure.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I know more details but not enough. I just met the original poster the other night (14 year old male) and I know his father a little. Like you this post didn't make much sense to me and still doesn't entirely.

The dive was Fox Island and Zee's Reef. I believe the problem occured on Zee's Reef. The charter was Teal Charter and there were several younger divers on board (11 years old, 14 years old, and maybe others). The charter company upon hearing that kids would be onboard provided 3 DM's at no charge. I don't know anything about the DM's.

There was a very large exchange last weekend (-2 to +12) which would have made the second dive (Zee's Reef) occur not at slack and with a large exchange. That would have made finding and staying on the wall a little difficult. Regarding the lady who dropped like a rock and passed out in talking to the OP's father in a dive store the next day it seems she was very overweighted and not so skilled as a diver as she through panic or whatever wasn't able to hit her BC inflate button although it was connected. She passed out at the bottom and doesn't remember anything until they got her on deck. Maybe panic contributed to CO2 build up who knows.

The DM's seemed to be worse than the other divers. I personally think from what I heard that the captain probably did nothing wrong other than take a boat load of kids to a site with current on a large exchange day.

This is the best I can make of what I have been told. The part in the OP about the captain causing divers to do bounce dives I can't make any sense of.

Thanks Gray ... that's helpful.

I do not know this dive op ... and it seems they do provide in-water DM's. I wasn't aware of anyone in the area who did that.

For a day with large tidal exchanges, those are pretty decent dive sites. In fact, I was diving Zee's Reef on Sunday with Bandito. There wasn't much current to speak of ... we were there between 12:30 and 2 PM, which put us on the early part of the flood.

The OP said they were doing dives of 90 to 110 feet ... depths on the reef range from 35 to 60 feet, and you have to go a long ways out past the reef to hit 90 feet. Most charters drop anchor just south of a small red buoy that marks the wall ... in about 30 feet of water, and have the divers swim north. It's tough to miss the dive site when you dive it like that.

I do not understand why a charter boat would attempt a live boat drop with those tidal exchanges ... you're not going to have much time to put people in the water before the current sweeps you off the site.

Perhaps the captain and crew are as incompetent as the OP makes them sound, after all ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Cacia]

Not to interupt Bob, but are the charters up there really dropping anchors?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Not to interupt Bob, but are the charters up there really dropping anchors?

Of course they are Catherine ... Puget Sound is mostly silt bottom ... no coral to damage. You just do it a bit away from the dive site.

Also, it depends on the dive site. Often they'll anchor for the drop, and live-boat for the pickup.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[pilot fish]

Woooooosh

You disappoint me. Thought you were doing so well and then you just.......... got unfocused, or distracted. Scared maybe? Don't know. I really thought you'd be able to stay on topic and answer an honest question. Oh, well.

Anyway, if you can find the courage to answer the question, especially since more info about that dive has been added, we'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[H2Andy]

PF, his point seems to be that you kind seemed to miss the point

as a friend of my father's (Che Guevara) used to say, "Ever onward unto victory"

 

[pilot fish]

yes, Scubadivamaster, there are some bad DM's out there, or at least some good DM's that have bad dives. It happens. No one is perfect, except JeffG.

I agree, it's hard to tell with limited knowledge. I've been on many dives with terrible DM's, sad to say. That comes from someone with almost 300 dives. (And no, they were NOT in the pool, silly guys, I knew what you were thinking).

I had a DM take us into a ripping current (well, try to) with two newly certified divers on their first "real" dive after cert class. After I got in and almost got ripped off the line my dive buddy so "he*! NO" and we aborted the dive. The two newbies were white as a sheet, they were nervous to begin with. The DM then had to dive in and get the spearfisherman that was on the boat with us and bring him back. Yep, you heard right. Spearfisher on a dive boat. I know it happens and some people don't care, but I don't feel like getting shot on a wreck dive. Oh yeah, they were taking the newbies on a 90 foot wreck dive. Hmmm...:huh:

I won't continue, it only gets worse.
Go figure.

 

[pilot fish]

PF, his point seems to be that you kind seemed to miss the point

as a friend of my father's (Che Guevara) used to say, "Ever onward unto victory"

Andy, he has no point. I've asked him to get to the point, answer the point of this thread and he asks about DM's fetching coffee for him.

 

[JeffG]

You disappoint me.

Unfortunately, you are not disappointing me. You are doing exactly what I think you would.

Thought you were doing so well and then you just.......... got unfocused, or distracted. Scared maybe? Don't know. I really thought you'd be able to stay on topic and answer an honest question. Oh, well.

I find your condescending attitude interesting.

Anyway, if you can find the courage to answer the question, especially since more info about that dive has been added, we'd love to hear your thoughts.

See...here is where your problem lies. You want a nice quick and easy Yes or No answer to a question that cannot be answered by a yes or no. Kinda like the McDonald's for thinking.

It is also too easy to just "give" you the answer, because then you will not have learned anything.

That is why I was asking you some questions. I'm trying to get you to think for yourself. But it seems that I am failing.

You do not know, what you do not know.