Info Backscatter Hybrid Flash HF-01: preliminary review

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I received my pair of HF-1 strobes a couple of weeks ago and have now used my new HF-1 strobes on three dives. I can make a few observations but it's still early days in evaluating them from a full range of subjects.

The strobes look great. They are very well built and seem to exude high quality product vibes out of the box. Each strobe includes a ball mount, flat diffuser, and remote light pipe. I purchased a pair of the recommends batteries for each strobe with my order.

These a large and powerful strobes. Smaller than an Ikelite but bigger than my existing Inon 330's, Retras, or S&S YS-DS3 strobes. They are also more negative than my Inon 330s, so it's likely that you might need more buoyancy if you are replacing one of the smaller models above with the HF-1.
The controls seem intuitive and are essentially the same as the Backscatter MF-2 strobe/snoot that I have had for a while. The power level knob might not be as easy to set if you are wearing heavy gloves or dry gloves. Better than Ikelite, but not as simple as the Inons. The knob requires a good amount of effort to turn and it is difficult to tell what its orientation is because it rather uniform. It does have a bit of a bump where the key is, but it's too subtle with thick gloves.

I had a chance to try the Video Lights on my first dive as my camera sort of rolled over in my car on the way to the dive, and I could not get my camera to trigger the flash. Some setting got bumped and I couldn't resolve it in the water. So, I shoot video with my Nikon Z8 for the first time. It came out great the HF-1's powerful video lights did a great job. I never could have done this with my Inon 330's and their weak on-board lights.

This weekend I went out for another pair of Puget Sound dives. Visibility in the summer is traditionally pretty poor due to algae blooms, but it was good enough to get some acceptable Wide-Angle shots with the new strobes. The strobes did a great job, working reliably and recycling quickly between Singe frame shots. I mostly left them set at 1/4 power. This was a good balance in particulate heavy waters to avoid the worse backscatter and flare while getting good exposures at f11 or so.

One of the features that I hoped to exploit with these strobes is the Rapid Recycle time enabling up the 20 frames per second at 1/4 power. Unfortunately, I could not get this to work at all as the subsequent shots were not in sync with my camera. I shot the Z8 set to 3fps in a Nauticam housing with the basic Nauticam manual led trigger. The strobe fired for each frame, but on the first shot of a burst got any exposure, I suspect that shot #2 and #3 were not in sync. In the image below you can see three shots taken in the same 1-second interval and only the first is exposed by the strobe.

BS HF-1 3 shot burst.png


I'll need feedback from Backscatter (?? @Backscatter::Jim ) about what to expect. Should this work with the Nauticam trigger, or do I need a more capable model? The HF-1 product page explicitly describes this scenario working with a Sony Alpha camera in a Nauticam housing, but there are no details of the flash trigger used.

Battery life is still an open question, but it seems solid so far. I only did two dives across Saturday and Sunday but made a point of not recharging the strobe batteries. I took about 275 shots mostly at 1/4 power. When I did charge the cells, they seemed to be at least 1/2 full or more. A good sign, but I'll need more time to really access their efficiency.

To sum it up, I think the strobes are very nice but heavier than my existing Inon 330s. The utility of being functional for both Stills and Video is great. The LiOn batteries would allow me to retire all my NiMH chargers and simplify my charging accessories. I hope to figure out the multiple FPS issue, as this is probably the one feature that would make these more useful to me than the Inon 330s. Without that feature I am not sure they are worth the extra weight for the bulk of my underwater photography needs.

A few more shots from this weekend's dive. Nothing amazing, but a good sample of the HF-1 in use.

[Nikon Z8 w/24-50mm, WWL-C, Pair of Backscatter HF-1 strobes]

Mukilteo T Dock June 29, 2024 (102 of 165).jpg



Mukilteo T Dock June 29, 2024 (27 of 165).jpg


Mukilteo T Dock June 29, 2024 (84 of 165).jpg


Mukilteo T Dock June 29, 2024 (80 of 165).jpg
 
@davehicks: Thanks for sharing that.

I will be waiting with not-held breath :wink: for a response on the rapid cycling. 3fps seems FAR less than what we're supposed to expect from these strobes (at the power level you were using).

I don't think there should be a problem with the Nauticam trigger at that cycle rate, either. I've been in the water with a buddy shooting a Sony a7r4, YS-250s, and (I think) a Nauticam trigger and watched those fire off at what looked like well more than 3fps.

Just a random thought: Is there any chance your trigger needed a fresh battery or charge? Maybe the trigger itself wasn't able to cycle quickly enough? Or, maybe the trigger doesn't flash as brightly on those repetitive shots and you need a better f/o cable to transmit enough of the signal?

If the weather permits, I should get mine in the water starting Friday, diving out of Morehead City (NC) for 8 or 9 days. I have a UW Technic trigger on my a7r4 and I am counting on being able to shoot some high frame rate (by u/w standards) photos.

ps. that nudi photo is a stunner!
 
I received my pair of HF-1 strobes a couple of weeks ago and have now used my new HF-1 strobes on three dives. I can make a few observations but it's still early days in evaluating them from a full range of subjects.

Nice review Dave. Look forward to hearing more thoughts and results.
Chip
 
@davehicks: Thanks for sharing that.

I will be waiting with not-held breath :wink: for a response on the rapid cycling. 3fps seems FAR less than what we're supposed to expect from these strobes (at the power level you were using).

I don't think there should be a problem with the Nauticam trigger at that cycle rate, either. I've been in the water with a buddy shooting a Sony a7r4, YS-250s, and (I think) a Nauticam trigger and watched those fire off at what looked like well more than 3fps.

Just a random thought: Is there any chance your trigger needed a fresh battery or charge? Maybe the trigger itself wasn't able to cycle quickly enough? Or, maybe the trigger doesn't flash as brightly on those repetitive shots and you need a better f/o cable to transmit enough of the signal?

If the weather permits, I should get mine in the water starting Friday, diving out of Morehead City (NC) for 8 or 9 days. I have a UW Technic trigger on my a7r4 and I am counting on being able to shoot some high frame rate (by u/w standards) photos.

ps. that nudi photo is a stunner!

Thanks! I called Backscatter about this #FPS issue, and they told me to turn off learning mode on the HF-1. There is a simple process in the manual to configure the strobe to default to Learning Mode ON or OFF. I've turned it OFF for both strobes now.

The tricky bit is that I had previously tested this on a dry bench and was easily able to get 3FPS working and exposing all the frames. But as soon as I took it underwater, the 2nd and 3rd shots were ambient light. I am not sure exactly what mechanism results in getting exposed shots on land but not in water??? It still tests good at 3FPS on the bench with learning mode OFF for whatever that is worth.

I'll take it out for another dive Tuesday or Wednesday and maybe try it in the pool first.

It's also not clear why this should be necessary, as Learning mode is only supposed to apply for the first shots when the strobe powers on. I'll reserve judgement until I see if it solves the problems, but it sure smells like a firmware bug to me.
 
Thanks! I called Backscatter about this #FPS issue, and they told me to turn off learning mode on the HF-1. There is a simple process in the manual to configure the strobe to default to Learning Mode ON or OFF. I've turned it OFF for both strobes now.

The tricky bit is that I had previously tested this on a dry bench and was easily able to get 3FPS working and exposing all the frames. But as soon as I took it underwater, the 2nd and 3rd shots were ambient light. I am not sure exactly what mechanism results in getting exposed shots on land but not in water??? It still tests good at 3FPS on the bench with learning mode OFF for whatever that is worth.

I'll take it out for another dive Tuesday or Wednesday and maybe try it in the pool first.

It's also not clear why this should be necessary, as Learning mode is only supposed to apply for the first shots when the strobe powers on. I'll reserve judgement until I see if it solves the problems, but it sure smells like a firmware bug to me.

Thanks for the tip. I already have the instructions for turning off Learning Mode. If I can't get a high frame rate to work, I'll try that.

It does have the look and feel of a bug.

I mean, Learning Mode On does something useful, that we want, doesn't it? In which case, what are we losing by turning it Off?

I suspect that it may be that, at least for us Sony people, until the Backscatter trigger is out, we'll be shooting in straight up Manual mode (no TTL) and in that case maybe Learning Mode really doesn't do anything useful anyway.

I plan to get the BS Sony trigger when it's available. I'm hoping for good things when shooting pelagics using TTL. I'm guessing the high speed drive mode will work as expected on a Sony with the BS trigger for Sony.

You Nikon guys can just suck it. lol :wink: :D
 
Thanks for the tip. I already have the instructions for turning off Learning Mode. If I can't get a high frame rate to work, I'll try that.

It does have the look and feel of a bug.

I mean, Learning Mode On does something useful, that we want, doesn't it? In which case, what are we losing by turning it Off?

I suspect that it may be that, at least for us Sony people, until the Backscatter trigger is out, we'll be shooting in straight up Manual mode (no TTL) and in that case maybe Learning Mode really doesn't do anything useful anyway.

I plan to get the BS Sony trigger when it's available. I'm hoping for good things when shooting pelagics using TTL. I'm guessing the high speed drive mode will work as expected on a Sony with the BS trigger for Sony.

You Nikon guys can just suck it. lol :wink: :D
You Sony shooters need TTL to avoid flaccid strobe disfunction! 😜
 
Thomas explains how to use learning mode in this 5 minute video:

Backscatter Hybrid Flash, Underwater Strobe Guide - Learning Mode & Pre-Flash Cancellation

Learning mode is on by default. This is designed for novice shooters who have preflash so they don't get confused on what setting to use. For manual flash shooters that only have a single flash form their camera or trigger, it is important to not use continuous shooting in learning mode. There is a learning mode window of time that the strobe looks at for learning pre flashes. If shooting continuously within that widow the flash will think the continuous burst is pre-flashes and then will learn that pattern and fire on the last flash. This is why if you have a 3FPS burst in learning mode you will get blank frames after every 3rd frame.

Just do 1 shot in learning mode and it will learn the manual pattern.

The alternative (and better solution) for manual shooters is to turn off the learning mode which is covered in the above video. This change can be made once and you never have to deal with learning again unless you change the setting back.

You can test this on land. I know there's plenty of old wives tales about dry firing underwater strobes on land, but don't worry about it, it is perfectly fine to do this, the hybrid can handle it.

The big take away is that if you have a manual trigger, just turn the learning mode off and you'll never have to deal with it again.

Let me know if you guys need any other help with this.

Jim
 
Thomas explains how to use learning mode in this 5 minute video:

Backscatter Hybrid Flash, Underwater Strobe Guide - Learning Mode & Pre-Flash Cancellation

Learning mode is on by default. This is designed for novice shooters who have preflash so they don't get confused on what setting to use. For manual flash shooters that only have a single flash form their camera or trigger, it is important to not use continuous shooting in learning mode. There is a learning mode window of time that the strobe looks at for learning pre flashes. If shooting continuously within that widow the flash will think the continuous burst is pre-flashes and then will learn that pattern and fire on the last flash. This is why if you have a 3FPS burst in learning mode you will get blank frames after every 3rd frame.

Just do 1 shot in learning mode and it will learn the manual pattern.

The alternative (and better solution) for manual shooters is to turn off the learning mode which is covered in the above video. This change can be made once and you never have to deal with learning again unless you change the setting back.

You can test this on land. I know there's plenty of old wives tales about dry firing underwater strobes on land, but don't worry about it, it is perfectly fine to do this, the hybrid can handle it.

The big take away is that if you have a manual trigger, just turn the learning mode off and you'll never have to deal with it again.

Let me know i you guys need any other help with this.

Jim

Thank you for that explanation! Makes perfect sense!
 
Thomas explains how to use learning mode in this 5 minute video:

Backscatter Hybrid Flash, Underwater Strobe Guide - Learning Mode & Pre-Flash Cancellation

Learning mode is on by default. This is designed for novice shooters who have preflash so they don't get confused on what setting to use. For manual flash shooters that only have a single flash form their camera or trigger, it is important to not use continuous shooting in learning mode. There is a learning mode window of time that the strobe looks at for learning pre flashes. If shooting continuously within that widow the flash will think the continuous burst is pre-flashes and then will learn that pattern and fire on the last flash. This is why if you have a 3FPS burst in learning mode you will get blank frames after every 3rd frame.

Just do 1 shot in learning mode and it will learn the manual pattern.

The alternative (and better solution) for manual shooters is to turn off the learning mode which is covered in the above video. This change can be made once and you never have to deal with learning again unless you change the setting back.

You can test this on land. I know there's plenty of old wives tales about dry firing underwater strobes on land, but don't worry about it, it is perfectly fine to do this, the hybrid can handle it.

The big take away is that if you have a manual trigger, just turn the learning mode off and you'll never have to deal with it again.

Let me know i you guys need any other help with this.

Jim
Thanks Jim, good info to share. Having used Backscatter strobes for years now, I am well versed in learning mode. I can assure you that I have not fired more than single shots when the strobe it turned on. Yet the rapid-fire exposures do not work on my system. Confusingly they do seem to work on my bench, but in the water it did not.

I suspect that the learning mode sequence is not working as expected in all cases. With a lifetime of software/hardware engineering experience to lean on, it does smell like bug. And I've experienced other bugs with BS strobes and flash sync with the MF-1 and MF-2, so I know there is history here. Fortunately, Backscatter was very helpful in finding solutions to those problems in the past.

I applaud you all for adding the ability to turn off Learning Mode for good. I turned it off on both of my HF-1 strobes, and again they seem to work properly on the bench in 3FPS bursts. I will try them in the pool, and probably on a dive tomorrow and report back.
 
I turned it off on both of my HF-1 strobes, and again they seem to work properly on the bench in 3FPS bursts. I will try them in the pool, and probably on a dive tomorrow and report back.


Would they work with faster than 3fps speeds, 9fps for example?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom