Backplates versus Vests/Jackets a Newb's perspective

[DevonDiver]

I personaly was not impressed at all with a BPW as it just did not feel like I was comfortable in it.

I find that when some new BP&W converts have issues , it is entirely due to a lack of information/tuition on how to set the system up to fit them properly.

Did you get any informed assistance with this... or just try to fit and wear it like a jacket BCD?

I did however find a hybrid that I liked a lot better and its called a Zeagle Ranger LTD. It does alot of what a BPW does however being a hybrid it allows it to be customized to fit the needs of a BCD or A BPW.

Not sure you really understand what a BP&W "does". A Zeagle Ranger certainly doesn't do it.

It's fine that you like the Ranger, as they are well regarded BCDs. However, it's wrong to think that there is any true 'hybrid' that can achieve the needs of both. With most attempts at 'hybrid' designs, they end up with the flaws of both and the benefits of neither.

 

[EastTNDiver]

I find that when some new BP&W converts have issues , it is entirely due to a lack of information/tuition on how to set the system up to fit them properly.

Did you get any informed assistance with this... or just try to fit and wear it like a jacket BCD?



Not sure you really understand what a BP&W "does". A Zeagle Ranger certainly doesn't do it.

It's fine that you like the Ranger, as they are well regarded BCDs. However, it's wrong to think that there is any true 'hybrid' that can achieve the needs of both. With most attempts at 'hybrid' designs, they end up with the flaws of both and the benefits of neither.

Then your findings aren't "entirely" accurate, or at least complete. I am another that tried BP/W, and just did not like it. And yes, it was set up and fitted to me by a pro who is highly regarded in tech diving. He also spent time with me and my son in the water to make sure we received a good trial with them. I understand your preferences, but they do not always read onto others, and just because someone expresses dissatisfaction with a BP/W, does not mean they screwed up the setup. For me, a BP/W would only be a choice if I chose to pursue a course of training/diving where they were the only logical choice. As it is, I choose to dive with a Scubapro Knighthawk, am extremely pleased with it, and prefer the fit/function over a BP/W.

I'm not bashing or attacking you, but I've seen several here who become pretty over zealous when discussing this subject, and I think it's important that any new divers understand they are not putting themselves in jeopardy if they choose to dive in something other than a BP/W.

 

[TSandM]

EastTNDiver, may I ask you what you didn't like about the backplate system that is better with the Knighthawk? And no, this is truly not meant to be accusatory or attacking. I ask because I look at BCs now and truly shudder; I can't imagine having to dive in one, when I've become accustomed to the uncluttered chest and instant-on fit of my backplates. So I wonder what people like better about BCs, when they have tried a backplate and have something for comparison.

 

[Clanggedin]

You don't necessarily need a weight belt with a BP/W set up. On my BP/W i have some of my weight on my cam bands and then I have the rest of the weight in pockets on my harness. I do not use an extra weight belt.

 

[DevonDiver]

. For me, a BP/W would only be a choice if I chose to pursue a course of training/diving where they were the only logical choice. As it is, I choose to dive with a Scubapro Knighthawk, am extremely pleased with it, and prefer the fit/function over a BP/W

As I said before...Not sure you really understand what a BP&W "does".

If you didn't like it, that's fine. I've never said that everyone had to have BP&W. I just think that divers should make an educated choice...and that the BP&W is a superior design and concept than the jacket BCD. I've seen where people had problems when initially converting to BP&W..and I've also seen how they changed perspectives once they finally got the kit configured and fitted correctly...and took some time to get used to it and learn to operate it properly.

Some people just can't convert. That's fair. Some people get used to one thing, then don't like to change. fair again. I appreciate that the BP&W initially feels different to a jacket BCD. Sometimes different is too much for people

 

[EastTNDiver]

EastTNDiver, may I ask you what you didn't like about the backplate system that is better with the Knighthawk? And no, this is truly not meant to be accusatory or attacking. I ask because I look at BCs now and truly shudder; I can't imagine having to dive in one, when I've become accustomed to the uncluttered chest and instant-on fit of my backplates. So I wonder what people like better about BCs, when they have tried a backplate and have something for comparison.

I guess the biggest immediate thing would be comfort. Maybe it's just my body type, or maybe I'm just a softie...hehe...but, there was no comparison between the two for me...the Knighthawk won hands down.

Also, at least for me, the Knighthawk provided instant lateral stability, while the BP/W required a bit of effort to counter roll tendencies...not a lot, but enough to notice. I know that comes with time and use, but I didn't see the need, given the Knighthawk is such a natural fit for me. Now, before anyone jumps in here assuming it was not fitted properly, it was set up for me by a true pro, and it wasn't just a throw it on and go kind of thing. He spent plenty of time with us, both pre-dive and in the water. I assure you, I wanted the thing to be right, as from everything I had gathered to that point indicated to me it was the way to go. I'm just not going to dive something that satisfies me less than what I use now, just to fit in with any particular concept or crowd. Oh yeah, the BP/W setup I tried was a nice Halcyon rig, so this was not due to some cheapy POS design.

As for the "danglies" I see mentioned so frequently in BP/W vs the world discussions, I find the Knighthawk to be much less offensive in this regard than many of the other back inflate and jacket systems I've seen. In fact, I go right to what I want, anytime I want it, without all the "fumbling around" some claim is inevitable with anything other than a BP/W. I will say I agree with your "shudder" remark, as I've seen some BCD systems that just look like someone threw in everything but the kitchen sink. Truth is, they probably didn't have much more on them than the Knighthawk...just not designed/organized as well, as that's just not an issue with the Knighthawk...at least, not for me.

Keep in mind that I'm not bashing BP/W's...just saying they're not the only way to go, and some people are going to find they prefer something else. I've been diving since 1984, and I kind of cringe when I see some posts that seem to imply to newbies they're gonna be in big doo doo if they go with anything other than a BP/W. I would rather see comments directing new divers to try different rigs until they find the best fit for them.

Given some of the discussions I've seen on this topic, I know some are going to swarm in and pick me apart on this post, but what it really boils down to is, the Knighthawk just fits me like a glove, and I really like it. So, I'll save someone some trouble...my Knighthawk is here to stay, and I'll not be swayed by any amount of dead horse beatings.

 

[TSandM]

Hmm . . . did the backplate system you tried have an STA? It's hard for me to analyze why a backplate would result in a greater tendency to turtle, unless it put the tank farther from your back.

But at any rate, I totally agree with you -- there are only a few things that are important about a BC, and a good fit and a stable tank are two of them. What's important is to dive what's comfortable and works well. For a lot of people, especially in cold water, I think a backplate system is pretty optimal, which is why I recommend them. I see SO many new divers around here in BCs that won't hold the tank still, and as they are trying to sort out everything else in their diving, they are also having to cope with a tank that slops from side to side as they move. Often, this is true even with the straps adjusted the best that they can be. We've had a lot of students, once they have had a chance to try our teaching setups (which are backplates) say that that's what they want to dive.

 

[Peter_C]

I guess the biggest immediate thing would be comfort. Maybe it's just my body type, or maybe I'm just a softie...hehe...but, there was no comparison between the two for me...the Knighthawk won hands down.

...my Knighthawk is here to stay, and I'll not be swayed by any amount of dead horse beatings.

Thanks for a reply to TS&M's question.

I am not going to say what is best, but for me the Knighthawk that I owned was very uncomfortable when walking longer distances in it with enough lead to sink a drysuit and a HP100 strapped to it. My shoulders just started to hurt really bad around the neck area. Since switching to a simple harnessed rig I have not had that issue.

 

[DevonDiver]

Hmm . . . did the backplate system you tried have an STA? It's hard for me to analyze why a backplate would result in a greater tendency to turtle, unless it put the tank farther from your back.

I'm equally mystified by this. One of the great advantages of BP&W is that it holds the cylinder much closer to your back. reducing the 'pendulum effect' where the cylinder lies too far above the centre of gravity, causing greater instability through distance from the fulcrum.

I've dived with Halcyon and their STA is a solid affair, that is pretty low-profile and holds the cylinder relatively tight against the BP.I am still inclined to believe that the harness wasn't adjusted correctly in this instance...and the whole rig was slopping around...

 

[danvolker]

I'm equally mystified by this. One of the great advantages of BP&W is that it holds the cylinder much closer to your back. reducing the 'pendulum effect' where the cylinder lies too far above the centre of gravity, causing greater instability through distance from the fulcrum.

I've dived with Halcyon and their STA is a solid affair, that is pretty low-profile and holds the cylinder relatively tight against the BP.I am still inclined to believe that the harness wasn't adjusted correctly in this instance...and the whole rig was slopping around...

With some of the older bp/wing set ups, you could have the butterfly nut holding the backplate to sta get loose, and this if not caught and tightened prior to the dive, could make the tank feel like it was moving around alot...It would be
This was of course, easy to rectify. You just have to know that this was the proiblem.
DanV