Backplates versus Vests/Jackets a Newb's perspective

[Eric Sedletzky]

At this point, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

I've never dived a dry suit and don't plan to any time soon. You mentioned having issues with a horseshoe because it's more difficult to vent properly and I said that's why I think the extra dump valve on the express tech might be useful. If I understand you correctly, the dry suit valve is on your right (hence being slightly rolled left to dump,) which to me makes the right side butt valve the appropriate one to use, but maybe I have that backwards because, like I said, I've never used a dry suit.

I currently use my left hand to hold my depth gauge/computer AND my inflator hose to dump while ascending, so I don't have any issue with being able to dump with my right hand if necessary. I thought of it more as an option to use in an uncontrolled ascent or when the bubble is wrong but maybe that's my newness.

It's actually pretty simple.
The less contraptions on an inflation device the better. Anytime you add automatic pull dumps on inflators or add another rear pull dump those extras just become one more thing that could potentially be a failure point. There doesn't really need to be that many options or fancy ways to dump air.

Many divers now have gone to putting a computer or bottom timer/depth gauge on their right wrist and doing away with an all in one console that would normally be on the left side. The only thing on the left side now would be a simple pressure gauge that cliped off to the left hip D ring .
Most of the wings I've seen have dumps on the left rear side because they figure most divers that use wings are used to this type of configuration. If there was a dump on the right rear side it wouldn't get used enough to be worth having the extra dangly and failure point.

I'm not GUE even though this is a GUE setup. It just makes sense if you think about it.

If a diver chooses to go up vertically for whatever reason and they want to use their top inflator hose, same thing, they watch their info on the right wrist and release air with their left hand.

I had to rescue a freaked out diver once from 60 feet that froze with fear. I had to take him up vertically while holding him face to face by his harness. I was able to hold him with my left hand and work two inflator dumps with my right hand (his and mine) and see my wrist computer (on my right wrist) all at the same time. If I had a console hanging down on my left side I would not have been able to do any of this.

Hope this helps

 

[halocline]

This is why I think the triple dump on the Express tech is a good thing. Two butt dumps on each side of the horseshoe and the inflator hose is a pull dump as well.

It always sounds good to have "more" of something, especially to someone with limited dive experience like yourself. That's one reason dive shops stock BCs that look more like fishing vests, with rows of D rings, pockets, and who knows what else.

In fact, most technical divers believe it's best to have one hip dump and the inflator, both on the left, and that's it. It simplifies venting because you always use your left hand, and it's only in two specific spots which you become very familiar with using. No pull dump; that's a bad idea, because it really is a viable failure risk. You're yanking on a corrugated rubber hose and plastic part; if it breaks, your BC floods. It definitely happens; I've seen it on more than one occasion.

Less is more with BCs. A rigid plate that couples the tank to your back, simple webbing for a harness, and a properly sized wing is all you need, and eventually you will almost certainly appreciate the absence of everything else. You said you like the minimalist approach, well, that's it.

I'm a climber as well, and it always amuses me how much emphasis some people put on the weight of scuba gear. It's almost as if they're talking about gear you'd have to drag up a mountain instead of wheel to the baggage drop off. And you want to make your gear choices based on how it performs in the water, not on land. This means evaluating dive gear in a dive shop is usually pretty pointless; dive gear companies know this and have unfortunately sometimes produced products that make much more sense on the showroom floor than in an underwater environment. Too bad there's no underwater dive shops; it would allow you to test gear only in the water, and would have the added benefit of cutting down on the sales pitches!

I have read some nice things about the zeagle express tech, and since I've never used one, I can't comment about it. However, there is the inescapable fact that you have a cylinder on your back, and the most efficient way of coupling them is by a large flat rigid plate. Consider a tank on it's side on the floor; not very stable, even if it's strapped onto a piece of padding. Now attach that tank to a plate, put the plate on the floor. Completely different.

 

[fjpatrum]

It's actually pretty simple.
The less contraptions on an inflation device the better. Anytime you add automatic pull dumps on inflators or add another rear pull dump those extras just become one more thing that could potentially be a failure point. There doesn't really need to be that many options or fancy ways to dump air.

Many divers now have gone to putting a computer or bottom timer/depth gauge on their right wrist and doing away with an all in one console that would normally be on the left side. The only thing on the left side now would be a simple pressure gauge that cliped off to the left hip D ring .
Most of the wings I've seen have dumps on the left rear side because they figure most divers that use wings are used to this type of configuration. If there was a dump on the right rear side it wouldn't get used enough to be worth having the extra dangly and failure point.

I'm not GUE even though this is a GUE setup. It just makes sense if you think about it.

If a diver chooses to go up vertically for whatever reason and they want to use their top inflator hose, same thing, they watch their info on the right wrist and release air with their left hand.

I had to rescue a freaked out diver once from 60 feet that froze with fear. I had to take him up vertically while holding him face to face by his harness. I was able to hold him with my left hand and work two inflator dumps with my right hand (his and mine) and see my wrist computer (on my right wrist) all at the same time. If I had a console hanging down on my left side I would not have been able to do any of this.

Hope this helps

I'm well aware of the possibility of valve failure. I'm also well aware of the likelihood of such a thing happening versus the likelihood of an extra dump being convenient for me. Personally, I'll take the extra dump. I still haven't decided what to get, though, so it may be a moot point if I don't like the express tech or I like something else better. If going up vertically, the inflator hose pull dump option will work just fine... why would that impact my ability to still read my gauges?

I'm already planning on just going to an SPG on my left hose and get rid of my console but I'll still wear my computer and compass on my left wrist (unless I bungee mount the compass somewhere else) because that's more comfortable for me than my right wrist. I don't see why that would be any more difficult than your scenario, just switching hands that I would hold the rescuee with (making the assumption I'd be calm enough to perform said rescue.)

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.

 

[fjpatrum]

It always sounds good to have "more" of something, especially to someone with limited dive experience like yourself. That's one reason dive shops stock BCs that look more like fishing vests, with rows of D rings, pockets, and who knows what else.

In fact, most technical divers believe it's best to have one hip dump and the inflator, both on the left, and that's it. It simplifies venting because you always use your left hand, and it's only in two specific spots which you become very familiar with using. No pull dump; that's a bad idea, because it really is a viable failure risk. You're yanking on a corrugated rubber hose and plastic part; if it breaks, your BC floods. It definitely happens; I've seen it on more than one occasion.

Less is more with BCs. A rigid plate that couples the tank to your back, simple webbing for a harness, and a properly sized wing is all you need, and eventually you will almost certainly appreciate the absence of everything else. You said you like the minimalist approach, well, that's it.

I'm a climber as well, and it always amuses me how much emphasis some people put on the weight of scuba gear. It's almost as if they're talking about gear you'd have to drag up a mountain instead of wheel to the baggage drop off. And you want to make your gear choices based on how it performs in the water, not on land. This means evaluating dive gear in a dive shop is usually pretty pointless; dive gear companies know this and have unfortunately sometimes produced products that make much more sense on the showroom floor than in an underwater environment. Too bad there's no underwater dive shops; it would allow you to test gear only in the water, and would have the added benefit of cutting down on the sales pitches!

I have read some nice things about the zeagle express tech, and since I've never used one, I can't comment about it. However, there is the inescapable fact that you have a cylinder on your back, and the most efficient way of coupling them is by a large flat rigid plate. Consider a tank on it's side on the floor; not very stable, even if it's strapped onto a piece of padding. Now attach that tank to a plate, put the plate on the floor. Completely different.

Er, maybe I'm missing something, but the hip dump IS a pull dump on all the BCs I've seen so far. The fact that most people think something is good is fairly irrelevant to me- I like the idea of the extra dump for the added convenience. I'll grant you that may be because I'm new, but I'm not new to experience, just new to diving. For me, I weigh the added convenience of something versus the likelihood of failure. As for the inflator hose failing, that can happen with any dump valve, hose or no. You already have the possibility so inflating the importance of it (pun intended) is simply disingenuous.

If it were a life support feature, I wouldn't add the extra dump. I don't, however, consider a BC to be life support as I can always swim with no air in a BC. I'll be less efficient to be sure, but I won't likely die from the failure even if it were to happen, which I doubt since I inspect my gear before I use it.

I don't know about the zeagle yet either... I haven't dived with one, or even tried one on. I very much liked the AL plate I used though it did feel a little "wobbly" which I attribute primarily to borrowing someone else's rig and not truly adjusting it to fit 100%. I suspect you're right about the stability versus the express tech, but I don't want to limit my options just for that reason. The express tech (and others like it) have so many features going for them that outweigh the cons, so far, in my mind.

 

[knowone]

When I am DIVING as opposed to gearing or trimming, I poke myself into holes and wrecks and caves and look at lots of creatures and fiddle with things.
During these wonderous occasions the range of gear used is from the fifties to current.
When I am gearing and trimming in the shed I install shoulder pull dumps on all my wings including H, love to take pics but I cut all the badges off, because there are times in certain ugly situations that even the supposed best of the best can find themselves, these dumps prove invaluable.
No major mods to the old stuff.
All divers have found themselves in these situations.
The inflator is generally the closest piece of related equipment to your hands and if you dive arms folded holding it, a quick deflate or inflate is available without having to move anything anywhere. Ok, your wrist a fraction or your thumb.
If the surface bandit decides to grab you, this dump releases the most air quickest easiest.
My console is clipped across my chest so there's no touching or unclipping just looking, but most of the time you have a reasonable idea of where you are and what you have left?
If it's spg only, same thing with computer-s and compass attached to a D somewhere until if required. Don't like wrist things.
Streamlining, chest clutter you say.
How does clipping and unclipping and with a stage on your left hip D and reaching and lifting inflator and reaching around and pulling to dump attain the grail of most aerodynamic diver.
Underwater gear failure has never been an issue with me, I do it solo, but after reading constantly about redundant problems from minds that require redundancy I concede and am to join the minimalists.

Two clear plastic bags on my head breathing from a kosher or halal sheep skin bladder with stones clasped in my arms a garlic clove necklace to ward off the gear failure makers, by the way, thats you with the sheeps fat rubbed all over my budgie smuggled body.

Failure points. Bah! The only failure point is the lump that all that gear is strapped and clipped to.

Like windup toys in a bathtub.

Zeagle is good.

 

[cmburch]

I have a pull dump on my OxyCheq Mach V Extreme inflator hose because that is what I like to use. I have never considered calling any extras failure points. Why? It is called preventive maintenance. I am into all the bells and whistles that is why I dive a TransPlate. It is comfortable for me and works for my type of hiking and diving.

 

[k ellis]

I have seen used SS BP's recently with harness for less than half price on SCUBABoard and SCUBAToys. I do not know if they had slots for tank cam straps though.

they do make adapters for diffrent configurations. I personaly was not impressed at all with a BPW as it just did not feel like I was comfortable in it. I did however find a hybrid that I liked a lot better and its called a Zeagle Ranger LTD. It does alot of what a BPW does however being a hybrid it allows it to be customized to fit the needs of a BCD or A BPW.

 

[halocline]

Er, maybe I'm missing something, but the hip dump IS a pull dump on all the BCs I've seen so far.

The pull dump is the feature that allows you to pull on the corrugated inflator hose and open the shoulder dump. There's a cable that runs inside the corrugated inflator hose that opens the dump valve.

The hip dump is just a spring loaded valve like any other. You do pull on a little string to open it, but that's not the same as tugging on the inflator itself, which then stretches the corrugated inflator hose and pulls the internal cable, which then opens the shoulder dump valve.

Once you get more diving experience, you might find that having extra dump valves is not a convenience. You just learn to dump air the same way each time. And, you also will probably learn to dump air less frequently; of course that's somewhat dive-dependent.

 

[DevonDiver]

I'd never dive with a BCD that had a corrugated hose pull dump. It's a truly horrible design, that just asks for failure. The whole concept of janking on the hose - just where it is attached to the bladder, is asking for trouble.

Another case of BCD manufacturers adding nonsense features, in the hope that divers will be impressed with gimmicks.

 

[taucherguy]

I would say dive with what you like and make your dive buddy aware of any oddballs you may have or use on your bc. People make it sound like that you will fail at diving ... or worse.
My wing is over 7 years old has 2 dumps in the rear and so far nothing failed (knock on wood). The only problem I have come across is the string on the rear dumps becomes frayed and breakes when not replaced. The wing I dive with is for 60lbs of lift and for doubles and since I prefer to spend money on diving instead (economy sucks), I haven't bought a single tank wing. Gonna get a HOG 32 next season I hope.