Backplate/wing questions

[MXGratefulDiver]

Whatever is officially DIR, you're perfectly aware that my quoted comment was a joke.

Ah ... a paraphrase from a recent conversation in another forum? OK ...

I'm really only concerned about the issue of the D-rings.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[steve2281]

Right now, at LP, he can get: DR SS plate $105.00
DR Venture wing 180.00
DR standard harness 33.00
$318.00 TOTAL

Be aware, the backplates that LP has in stock right now are the older ones without the slots for cambands. I talked to them a couple days ago.

 

[RiverRat]

Well, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but my DIR instructor didn't seem to share your opinion.

As I recall the explanation, DIR doesn't want you to use welded D-rings, or Billy rings. Clip-mounted D-rings with a slight bend are fine for the shoulder straps, but not recommended for the waist harness.

At least, that's the way my rig was set up, and he was pretty cool with it.

So ... was my DIR instructor wrong?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Not to get the thread off track, but I have a question. What is the difference between a "Billy ring" and taking a D-ring, putting it in a vise and bending it? I have FredT billy rings. They're not welded, so that's DIR and they are bent slightly so they come up from the shoulder a bit. What's the diff between the two and why are Billy rings not DIR?

 

[jonnythan]

I thought that Billy rings were the welded ones, whereas bent D-rings are simply bent.

 

[RiverRat]

I thought that Billy rings were the welded ones, whereas bent D-rings are simply bent.

hummmmm, ok, all I know is the FredT rings I have are cut from steel and then bent. All one piece, no welds. He calls them Billy Rings. So maybe my rings are DIR after all.
The hip D-Ring sticks straight out though, I'm thinking that's not DIR?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Billy rings are fixed-position ... you cannot move them up and down with respect to the webbing. They are therefore considered potential entanglement hazards. They are usually welded to the slider that attaches them to the webbing. Billy rings do stick out at a 90-degree angle to the slider.

There are other, angled rings that are also welded or otherwise permanently attached to the slider. These are typically not called Billy rings, but they still are not DIR, because they are rigidly attached, stick out at an angle, and are considered entanglement hazards.

Bent rings attached with the standard slider are ... as far as I know ... OK. As I said, my DIR instructor didn't seem to have any issues with them, and he looked over our rigs pretty closely. BTW - the plate and harness I used for class were from FredT, although I also have rigs from Oxycheq, and Dive Rite.

There are at least three DIR instructors on this forum ... I'd like to hear from one of them on this topic. Not that I think it's a deal-breaker, but they always have good explanations for why they choose the gear they do.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[BCS]

Billy rings are fixed-position ... you cannot move them up and down with respect to the webbing. They are therefore considered potential entanglement hazards. They are usually welded to the slider that attaches them to the webbing. Billy rings do stick out at a 90-degree angle to the slider.

There are other, angled rings that are also welded or otherwise permanently attached to the slider. These are typically not called Billy rings, but they still are not DIR, because they are rigidly attached, stick out at an angle, and are considered entanglement hazards.

Bent rings attached with the standard slider are ... as far as I know ... OK. As I said, my DIR instructor didn't seem to have any issues with them, and he looked over our rigs pretty closely. BTW - the plate and harness I used for class were from FredT, although I also have rigs from Oxycheq, and Dive Rite.

There are at least three DIR instructors on this forum ... I'd like to hear from one of them on this topic. Not that I think it's a deal-breaker, but they always have good explanations for why they choose the gear they do.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Hi Bob,
Obviously we try to keep life simple for a number of reasons. The easier items are to use/replace/obtain, the less complicated our diving is....
Keep it simple... from a true "DIR" perspective, just use the simple d-rings w/the slight bend in them-maybe 15 to 20 degrees from 180- for the chest so they don't ride right up against the harness and regular flat d-rings everywhere else.
Typically, "Billy Rings" are usually much thicker and increase the difficulty for clipping for some....(the size of the opening on the bolt snap vs. the size of the d-ring...we try to keep the d-ring diameter small in comparison to the bolt snap opening so it is easier to hit the target...I see alot of folks having a tough time clipping their boilt snaps when the d-rings are big and bulky).
We try to not use gear to get over skill deficiencies...meaning, using the fixed d-rings is only needed when one is unable to train themselves in how to use a simple d-ring properly/easily....if one can spare a little time and effort, they will easily master clipping off to simple d-rings that will save them some dinero and keep the rig simple and streamlined. The entanglement/snag risk for the billy rings is going to be small, but still not as small as using what we recommend.
All this being said, my personal opinion is that the issue does not really call for a huge discussion or anyone to come to blows....and if there are folks out there that must have the fixed type rings, I have some from my sordid past that I am willing to part with real cheap...;-)...
Dive safe!!---brando

 

[RiverRat]

Thanks guys! Fisticuffs not required (did I spell that right?)
That clears up the D-ring questions I had.

 

[Hoyden]

IMO you will do yourself a big favor if you have established a strong relationship with your LDS. The Halcyon rig is better in the details… its complete and the pieces work well together. It will accommodate your diving needs now and in the future. The storage pocket on the BP is worth the price of admission by itself… for storing and deploying a surface marker which you will do in DIR-F. Even if the Halcyon product costs a bit more the quality is there. Think also about the hardware… the D-rings and their shape. Halcyons have a slight bend in there’s which allow for an easy clip off.

Best wishes on your course… it will change the way you think about diving.

Just wanted to thank all of you for your input on this topic - I went out today and bought an 30lb Eclipse at my LDS. They were really helpful in getting it set up for a dive trip this coming week. I decided that it was worth a little more money to buy this type of item locally and be able to count on their support. I purchased a regulator set somewhere else (used) and these guys said they'd be happy to service them for me.


Jackie

 

[The Chairman]

First off, the wing by DeepSeaSupply is DIR compliant. The workmanship is awesome and the hose is very short. You can only get a pull dump by special ordering one. Their water cut d-rings are beyond sweet. I can't say whether their rigidness is DIR or not, but the are great for those of us with arthritis. Easy to clip to and very durable.

However, their backplate has plastic inserts to stop web abrasion. It's a smart move on their part, but may stop the plate from being fully DIR compliant.