MikeS:
Bob,
Well, if disagreeing with your presenitation means Im trying to turn this discussion into an argument, I guess I am. IMO your comparison of a BP and wings to traditional BCs is inaccurate and misleading. You credit all of the attributes you like to a BP and wing without acknowledging that its possible to achieve the same attributes by looking for them in a more traditional BC. Its also possible by selecting the wrong components of a BP and wings configuration to lose some or all of those attributes.
Actually, what I found argumentative was the inference that I was in any way saying a BP/wing configuration would help you gain buoyancy skills. I said no such thing.
In fact, the following is a recent quote from me in another thread in this forum ...
"Diving's not really about the gear ... DIR or otherwise. You either have the chops or you don't. If you do, the gear ain't going to make you a better diver ... it's only going to make it easier for you to use what you've already got. And if you don't, a fancy rig ain't gonna help you get them."
So in that respect, I believe we're on the same page. I took exception to you implying otherwise.
On the other hand, let me repeat ... I was responding to the question "what is a back plate" ... hence my emphasis on backplate rather than BCD, as a way to answer the question. What you took as "crediting the attributes I liked to a BP" was more due to the fact that the originator of this thread asked specifically about the BP than it was an endorsement of one method over the other. I was simply trying to stay on topic.
Exactly, and likewise the benefits you are attributing to a BP and wing are only realized when you compare certain BP configurations to certain models of BCDs.
Well, yes and no ... there are some inherent differences that are fairly universal. Padding, for example. Virtually all BCD's have it to one degree or another ... and BP systems don't. We've already touched on the fact that padding adds buoyancy and bulk ... but it also, by it's nature, adds an element of instability. That's due to the fact that as depth increases, this padding gets squeezed, and therefore the adjustments that made the BCD fit at the surface become looser. Now, this may or may not impact the performance of the rig ... depends on how the thing's designed and how much padding we're talking about. But it is an inherent "feature" of a BCD, and not of a BP system. Another is the side-to-side stability of the cylinder. Some BCDs hold the cylinder more rigidly than others ... but virtually all of them use either a molded plastic piece to hold the cylinder in place, or they use some form of harness ... typically made of webbing. Neither approach will hold a cylinder as rigidly ... particularly with respect to side-to-side motion ... as a backplate and STA. It's inherent to the materials used as much as the design. Now, one can maintain that with some traditional BCDs there is such a minimal amount of motion that it's inconsequential ... and I'd agree with that ... but it's still true that, due to it's design, a BCD will not hold a cylinder as rigidly as a backplate. But don't take my word for it. You can demonstrate this to your own satisfaction by simply using the side-to-side motion test I described in my previous post ... try it on any backplate and BCD system you choose.
For what its worth I think your last post is much more helpful. IMO it gives good unbiased advice on how to select a BCD. If answering the questions you propose leads to selecting a BP and wings then great. But it may also lead to selecting a more traditional BC which is fine also in my book.
Mine as well ... really, I'm not trying to "sell" anything ... simply answer a question.
Some things I would add are:
Can you get the level of support/service/mentoring youre looking for the configuration you select? A BP configuration does you no good if you cant figure out how to rig the harness and have no one to turn to for help. Additionally some instructors refuse to allow students to participate in AOW and Rescue with a single piece harness.
Service, support, and mentoring are all important factors, certainly. And these will be more a function of shop management than they will of the products sold at any given LDS. However, what some instructors allow or disallow is really not germaine to the discussion ... one can always find another instructor who'll teach you to use your equipment in the manner in which it was meant to be used. I believe this is really an issue of shop policy, and not one of agency standards.
Will the conditions you dive under change? Do you think you may advance toward more technical diving, doubles, drysuit? If so the more flexible the system the less money youll have to spend as you change the configuration. To me this is the biggest advantage of a BP and wing.
For you that may be so. I don't dive doubles ... am still on the fence about technical diving ... and dove a drysuit for hundreds of dives before I ever considered using a backplate. I still found numerous advantages to the BP in terms of overall underwater performance. To reiterate earlier comments, those performance advantages included redistributing weight over my torso (counteracting that nice, built-in air bladder we all use for breathing) ... and a tighter, more rigid interface between body and rig that made it easier for me to maneuver without having to compensate for slight movements between my BCD and cylinder. This isn't to imply in any way that it helped me improve my skills as a diver ... instead it simply allowed me to make better use of the skills I already possessed.
I don't make those statements lightly ... I put hundreds of dives on my BCD's, and was particularly fond of my ScubaPro Superhawk. But with all due honesty, the BP does a better job.
I agree with everything youve said here so well have to find something else to argue about. :xmas3:
What say we simply, and respectfully, agree to disagree ... and FWIW, I really don't think there's that much to disagree about. Much of what's being discussed really boils down to personal preference.
How do you like the TransPlate harness? I just got one, still in the box though; I havent attached it to a BP yet. It looks like it will provide some of the comfort and convince of a more traditional BC while maintaining most of the benefits of a BP and wing.
The harness really isn't much different than the TransPac II, which I liked anyway. It does indeed provide comfort and convenience, making this rig a really nice "compromise" solution to the advantages offered by both BP and traditional BCD. However, as I noted earlier, there are always tradeoffs. In this case, because the shoulder straps attach to the waist belt in the way they do, it does not pull your shoulder straps in as tightly to your torso as you'd get with a traditional harness. However, this is mediated by the use of a sternum strap and the crotch strap.
Overall, I think it's a pretty sweet rig ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
