Back Plate

[IndigoBlue]

Actually very few stores have a "resident course director". Only ITC facilities.

Did I not say something like "if called on it"? That was meant to indicate a complaint being made. I'm well aware of the most common complaints but you're way off on the most common accident. Ear barotrauma would be a much better bet than "death".

Did I say it was relevant? I was responding to a post, kinda like you are I guess.

I'll guess that you don't dive a BP/wings, right?

WW

WW, if you wrote into PADI or NAUI or SSI and complained that the instructor would not allow you into the class with your backplate, I doubt anyone at HQ would agree with you. They might actually think you were even nutts, and therefore contraindicated by the too-feeble-minded-to-scuba principle.

On the other hand, I myself would be happy to deal with your backplate and wing in an AOW or rescue class. It just varies by instructor.

I have friends who dive OMS backplate B/Cs and I have friends who dive Halcyon backplate/wings. We all dive together, without telling each other what to do. But we do in fact know how to operate each other's gear, as we should.

I have found my Zeagle fabric-back tech B/C to be more than adequate for all diving, and therefore I have not had a reason to gravitate towards either an OMS backplate B/C nor a Halcyon backplate/wing, nor even the hyper-modern Armadillo side-mounts. I will admit that the oval Halcyon wings look superior to any other air bladder, and therefore when my own Zeagle wing wears out, I plan to DYI a Halcyon wing to my Zeagle fabric tech B/C.

You sound like a commercial for Halcyon, and I sound like a commercial for Zeagle, I know!

I stand corrected on the ear barotrauma issue. You are in fact correct about that. But its still not a backplate issue.

 

[Genesis]

Demonstrating or practicing basic rescue with a harness, with no quick releases, is annoying. Not impossible, but annoying. Apparently some instructor(s) do not care to deal with the annoyance.

Granted, there are more harness and backplate rigs showing up on the diving scene. They are still less than 1% of all divers, probably.
.....
Your potential instructor just was not in the mood, I guess, to deal with the annoyance, Mr. Genesis.

The last cattle boat I was on, with ~20 divers, had three people in BP+W setups - including myself. I knew neither of the others. I'd say that's way beyond 1%!

BTW, ditching a harness setup on an unconscious diver is trivial, even if you want to keep the harness around for him. Ditch/hand off the weights first, of course. Unhook the belly strap and pull it through the crotch strap, insure the arms are free to rotate downward, slightly spread the shoulder straps, then vent the wing. It slips right off. The plate will insure that even an AL tank rig is slightly negative. If you do not intend to send it to the bottom (e.g. you're in a class!) hang onto the inflator when you do this; as soon as its free hit the button and it'll pop back to the surface. Problem solved.

It is FAR easier to ditch a harness rig in the water than most "recreational" rigs once you know how to do it. I had a buddy in Rescue with a traditional harness and there were a bunch of things to pay attention to or it simply would not come off. If you're trying to do rescue breathing on a victim while getting their kit off, the complexity of a typical recreational BC (how do the quick-releases work, where are the weight releases and/or belt, is there a chest strap, is there a belly strap AND a cummerbund, or just one of them, etc) make it quite a bit more of a PITA than a harness is to get off someone quickly.

In a REAL rescue situation where I don't give a good damn about the kit remaining with the diver my safety shears will snip the shoulder straps in about 2 seconds - all done. THAT's not possible with a recreational BC either, as you typically have lots of layers of padding and such that will jam the typical EMT shears quite nicely.

If, after a REAL (successful) rescue, the diver is pizzed about the harness being cut he can replace it for all of about $20. The recreational BC user who has straps cut is going to be buying a new BC.

 

[WreckWriter]

WW, if you wrote into PADI or NAUI or SSI and complained that the instructor would not allow you into the class with your backplate, I doubt anyone at HQ would agree with you. They might actually think you were even nutts, and therefore contraindicated by the too-feeble-minded-to-scuba principle.

I think you're wrong. I don't recall anything in standards regarding requiring or excluding types of gear (other than that specifically required). I've been retired for a few years though so you might be right.

But we do in fact know how to operate each other's gear, as we should.

Exactly my point. When one reaches a level of rescue (let's not bother discussing AOW), one should be familiar with the majority of equipment configurations. What better way to get this familiarity than in your Rescue class?

I have found my Zeagle fabric-back tech B/C to be more than adequate for all diving

More like a BP/wings than most BCs I'd guess.

You sound like a commercial for Halcyon, and I sound like a commercial for Zeagle, I know!

God knows I don't mean to! I do prefer a BP/wing config though. Doesn't have to be Halcyon (although mine are), could be DR, OxyCheq or most any other.

I stand corrected on the ear barotrauma issue. You are in fact correct about that. But its still not a backplate issue.

You're right, its not.

WW

 

[IndigoBlue]

The last cattle boat I was on, with ~20 divers, had three people in BP+W setups - including myself. I knew neither of the others. I'd say that's way beyond 1%!

BTW, ditching a harness setup on an unconscious diver is trivial, even if you want to keep the harness around for him. Ditch/hand off the weights first, of course. Unhook the belly strap and pull it through the crotch strap, insure the arms are free to rotate downward, slightly spread the shoulder straps, then vent the wing. ...

Precisely. That is the hard part, without the quick releases.

Piece of cake with the quick releases.

 

[IndigoBlue]

...Exactly my point. When one reaches a level of rescue (let's not bother discussing AOW), one should be familiar with the majority of equipment configurations. What better way to get this familiarity than in your Rescue class?...
WW

I completely agree with you. But it is not my place to disagree with another instructor making their own call.

 

[WreckWriter]

BTW, ditching a harness setup on an unconscious diver is trivial.

Just "chicken wing" it off, same as you would a Scubapro classic or any other BC without quick release shoulder straps.

WW

 

[WreckWriter]

I completely agree with you. But it is not my place to disagree with another instructor making their own call.

No? Even if that call is made out of laziness? I've never had trouble disagreeing with other instructors, particularly when I think their goal is something other than turning out the best divers possible.

WW

 

[Genesis]

Just "chicken wing" it off, same as you would a Scubapro classic or any other BC without quick release shoulder straps.

WW

If he's unconscious its easier to just let it drop off from the shoulders, which it will provided the arms can rotate behind him (you're starting with him on his back, on the surface, which is where he has to be if you're going to give him rescue breaths!)

When I did Rescue, I had to DEMONSTRATE this to my buddy once - from that point forward he "got it" and had no problem dropping my kit in a couple of seconds. Starting from floating on my back I can drop the kit almost instantly this way if I ever need to.

The "chicken wing" thing is harder for some folks, especially if they have fairly heavy exposure protection on or "thick" arms.

 

[IndigoBlue]

No? Even if that call is made out of laziness? I've never had trouble disagreeing with other instructors, particularly when I think their goal is something other than turning out the best divers possible.

WW

LOL !

Sounds like you were born to be an I/T or a Course Director then! Maybe you just retired too early.

 

[IndigoBlue]

If he's unconscious its easier to just let it drop off from the shoulders, which it will provided the arms can rotate behind him (you're starting with him on his back, on the surface, which is where he has to be if you're going to give him rescue breaths!)

When I did Rescue, I had to DEMONSTRATE this to my buddy once - from that point forward he "got it" and had no problem dropping my kit in a couple of seconds. Starting from floating on my back I can drop the kit almost instantly this way if I ever need to.

The "chicken wing" thing is harder for some folks, especially if they have fairly heavy exposure protection on or "thick" arms.

If it was the real thing, I would just pull out my pig sticker and slit the shoulder strap then push it off. I believe that is the textbook GUE answer as well, but I am guessing. I would use the pig sticker to deflate the wing as well. Faster that way. Alas but also in the interest of speed I would then ditch my pig sticker as well.

But for a teaching demo, its still a pain. Maybe the pain is a good thing. Maybe you might actually have to rescue a Halcyon-clad diver someday. I should hope not. Is no infallability myth sacred?