Back Plate

[IndigoBlue]

How about if you want to clip off your SPG/computer, stage sling a pony, attach a canister light, a backup light or two? The adjustability/adaptability of a single piece web harness really comes in handy. It’s nice to have those d-rings where you want them rather than where they looked good on the Seaquest model.

Mike

I clip my SPG to my left shoulder D ring. But there are 6 additional smaller D rings along the back, 3 on each side, if I wanted to clip the SPG to one of those, with cave line.

I wear my Suunto on my wrist.

You can clip 4 stage tanks (of 40 cu ft each) to the 4 large D rings on the front and sides of it, two on each side, parallel to each other.

Canister lights normally fit between the twin tanks in the IANTD configuration or along the back on the smaller D rings supra.

I attach backup lights to the SPG hose(s). Halcyon backup lights.

I don't own anything made by SeaQuest. However my wife's wetsuit is made by SeaQuest. But her B/C is a Zeagle as well. Only the best, for the Amphibious Diving Kitty.

You left out argon bottle. That can go along the back of the Zeagle on the smaller D rings, opposite of the cannister light.

I do not dispute the versatility of a backplate rig for doubles. I dispute its appropriateness for single tank dives and for new divers who do not dive doubles, especially on trips to warm tropical islands.

 

[MikeS]

I clip my SPG to my left shoulder D ring. But there are 6 additional smaller D rings along the back, 3 on each side, if I wanted to clip the SPG to one of those.

I guess that’s one approach; put a d-ring everywhere so there will always be one where you want it. A secondary benefit is you’ll need less weight due to the weight of all those d-rings. :madnoel:

I do not dispute the versatility of a backplate rig for doubles. I dispute its appropriateness for single tank dives and for new divers who do not dive doubles.

I dispute that somehow a backplate and wing is magically going to give you good buoyancy control.

I would hope you would not disagree that a backplate and wing is not inappropriate for new divers.

The benefits of a backplate and wing over a traditional BC will be lost on warm water vacation divers. In fact they are likely to become frustrated with the complexity of initial setup and adjustment.

However from personal experience I have found an advantage to the modularity as I started diving with different exposure protection and carrying along things I wanted to attach.

Mike

 

[RiverRat]

I dispute that somehow a backplate and wing is magically going to give you good buoyancy control.
I would hope you would not disagree that a backplate and wing is not inappropriate for new divers.
The benefits of a backplate and wing over a traditional BC will be lost on warm water vacation divers. In fact they are likely to become frustrated with the complexity of initial setup and adjustment. However from personal experience I have found an advantage to the modularity as I started diving with different exposure protection and carrying along things I wanted to attach.

Mike

Mike,
As a new diver I would have to disagree with you here. By moving mega lead from my belt and spreading out a good portion of it over my lungs, where it should be, my trim improved immensely. No squeeze like I had with a vest either. WAY more streamlined, no air trapping, etc. etc. plus all the other benefits we agree on such as modularity. Once you "tune" your rig it's all very simple to me. I think it depends on the diver, whether or not they really want to learn initially about trim and buoyancy details, tank details etc. The dive shops should support divers like this from the start and not treat them like idiots. If they're lazy about that stuff then maybe stick them in a vest and try to trim them out with trim pockets I guess. Anyway take a look at the photo in top left corner, I'm diving a BP/W in the tropics, neutral, no air on my BC and it works fine for me.
http://www.northeastcomputer.net/familypics/scuba/photos.html

 

[MikeS]

Mike,
By moving mega lead from my belt and spreading out a good portion of it over my lungs, where it should be, my trim improved immensely.

I think you are a step ahead of most divers in that you have taken the time to figure out concept of trim, most never do. What you describe is just as easily accomplished with a good BC.

No squeeze like I had with a vest either.

With a rear inflation BC there is no squeeze.

WAY more streamlined, no air trapping, etc. etc.

The fact that you are streamlined is not a function of backplate and wings versus a traditional BC. It’s a function of being weighted properly and having a well sized bladder. In another post someone was taking about attaching a wing with 100 pounds of lift to a backplate and diving with a single tank, is that more streamlined than a good back inflation BC?

,
The dive shops should support divers like this from the start and not treat them like idiots. If they're lazy about that stuff then maybe stick them in a vest and try to trim them out with trim pockets I guess.

I suspect the reason is the same as why most shops don’t teach trim in Open Water Training; the average consumer is not interested in investing enough time and money to master buoyancy and trim. All they want is to swim in the warm clear water and look at the pretty fish while on vacation.

Anyway take a look at the photo in top left corner, I'm diving a BP/W in the tropics, neutral, no air on my BC and it works fine for me.

Looks good! But I think the reason that your doing well is that you’ve invested the time to learn about trim not because you have a backplate and wing gear configuration. You can achieve the same results with a traditional BC.

Mike

 

[Dan Gibson]

Partially true. A backplate and wing correctly configured with nothing on the front of the body is certainly more streamlined than a traditional BC that incorporates pockets that wrap around the front with the cummerbund. Those act like big scoops and do cause more drag. Excess weight and a bladder full of air causes drag in either configuration.

The fact that you are streamlined is not a function of backplate and wings versus a traditional BC. It’s a function of being weighted properly and having a well sized bladder. In another post someone was taking about attaching a wing with 100 pounds of lift to a backplate and diving with a single tank, is that more streamlined than a good back inflation BC?

Mike

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Here is the rub, Snowbear.

With a backplate, that moves 6 pounds of stainless steel onto your back and off your belt. Fine for warm water.

For cold water, that leaves about 20 to 25 lbs you still need to wear on your belt. Unless you weave trim weights through your shoulder straps like some divers, that leaves way too much weight on a belt, in my opinion.

An integrated B/C still lets you trim down your weight belt even more.

With twin tanks and a backplate, you only have about 10 lbs at most to put onto your weight belt. The rest is already on your back.

Either way you look at it, a backplate with a single tank has major drawbacks.

Having said that, a backplate with a single tank has major advantages as well, if in fact you do dive with doubles sometimes, because it allows you to use the same B/C (DiveRite or OMS) or harnass (Halcyon) for both your singles and doubles. But still at the expense of a darn heavy weight belt when you are diving cold water with a single tank.

Anyway, that is the whole story.

Enjoy your backplate. Dive Safe, Have Fun, Dive Often.

Hmmm ... trying to follow the logic and really can't see it. FWIW - I dive a DiveRite Transplate with single steel cylinders. Depending on the dive and what tanks currently contain what mix I may be using an E119, LP95, or MP72. In any case, I wear a soft weight belt with 20 or 22 lbs of lead. I'm trimmed perfectly with that configuration. So where do you see it being an issue?

I wear that much lead in part because I'm a fairly large fellow ... about 245 lbs. Some of my dive buddies dive similar configurations, with single tanks, with as little as 12 or 14 lbs on their weight belt. I think you're making some assumptions here that may not necessarily be valid.

You say there are major drawbacks to diving a backplate with a single cylinder. Would you care to elaborate on exactly what those drawbacks are ... and why you view them as drawbacks? Because, frankly, my experience hasn't shown me any.

... Bob (Grateful DIver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Boogie, OK then here is another problem with a single tank backplate configuration:

WHAT are you going to do when you travel to Hawaii or Taihiti to get away from that FREEZING COLD Canadian lakes? Pack your backplate and single tank adaptor with you??

No matter how you look at it, a backplate rig for single tank diving is only an advantage when you are also diving doubles.

Starboard battery, READY FIRE.

Ah, here's one ... to answer your question directly, yes I'd pack the BP and STA. Know why? Because they take up less space in my luggage than my Scubapro Superhawk ... and roughly the same as my Transpac II softpac and wing. The advantage is that I'd be able to dive with no weightbelt at all ... even using AL80's. I can bring along my Venture wing, leaving my larger Rec wing home for cold water environs ... a much more logical setup than trying to use the Superhawk with it's large, bulky bladder.

Sure, it'll add about eight pounds to my luggage ... but I don't really see that as a major drawback.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

There are advantages to a backplate and wings but “better” buoyancy control and trim are not one of them. If you understand the concepts and practice you can achieve good buoyancy control with any BCD including garbage bags for a bladder with rocks duct tapped to your body. There is no magic bullet! You can’t buy good buoyancy control! It takes an understanding of the concepts and lots of practice.

Well ... duh ... but given the same diver, with the same amount of experience and skill level, most divers ... with equal familiarity on both rigs ... will have an easier time with a BP/W than with a traditional BCD. This statement isn't based on personal preference ... it's based on working with new divers in different equipment configurations and watching what happens. Your mileage may vary ... I can only speak from personal experience. And FWIW - this is the "New to Diving" forum ... consider the audience to whom you speak. Would you recommend that anyone learn buoyancy control using garbage bags, rocks, and duct tape? Get real man ...

This is not quite true. There are many BCs that hold a single cylinder in place just as well, and as close, if not closer to your body as a backplate. In fact the backplate does not hold a single cylinder in place on its own. Either a single tank adaptor or a wing such as Halcyon Pioneer with a built in single tank adaptor is needed to hold the tank. With a single tank adaptor the tank is actually moved farther from your body than with most BCs.

That's another generalization that's not always true. In fact, I was diving just this afternoon with someone using a BP with no single-tank adapter ... diving a single OMS LP98. There was literally nothing between his back and his cylinder except the thickness of the backplate itself.

Furthermore, a majority of traditional BCD's use a piece of molded plastic to hold the tank rigidly to the back of the BCD. This typically offsets the cylinder off the diver's torso much further than a STA does.

So your statements really are only true when you are comparing certain models of BP configurations against certain models of BCD configurations ... and more often than not, your statements are not true at all.

This statement makes no sense. The wing or bladder of a backplate and wing is a BCD. I could be wrong but what I think you meant to say is the many people prefer a traditional BC that incorporate the backplate, wing, and harness into a single device. Functionally a traditional BC incorporates the same functionality as a backplate and wings. There is a harness to strap it to your body, a ridged structure to hold the tank to the harness, a bladder with an inflating/deflation device for buoyancy control, and some means such as d-rings or pockets to attach/carry things.

I meant to say exactly what I did say ... go back and read my original post again. You simply said the same thing in different words. I explained clearly what the function of a traditional BCD was, and that a BP/W performs the same function using a component approach rather than as an all-in-one package. I can't help but get the impression from the above commentary that you're simply looking to pick nits.

IMO the only advantages to a backplate and wing configuration over a traditional BC is flexibility through modularity. There are different sizes and weights of backplates, different wings for singles or doubles with different lift capacities, single tank adaptors, single piece web harnesses versus padded shoulder straps, etc., etc.. To change the configuration you don’t have to buy a complete new BC you can change a single component. For example, if you want to take more weight off your weight belt you can buy a thicker heavier backplate and use all the other parts.

Again, you're simply repackaging what I said in my original post ... the one you're seemingly trying to argue with. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Additionally many parts of a traditional BC such as d-rings are fixed. in quantity and location where as with a single piece web harness on a back plate it’s a simple matter to add another d-ring or move one.

This flexibility is a double edge sword; it requires additional setup and adjustment. For example with a single web strap harness you must re-adjust it if you change exposure protection.

Depends on the BP/harness setup you purchase. My TransPlate requires no readjustment going from one type of exposure protection to another. You simply put it on and cinch the harness straps ... just as you would with a traditional BCD. Once again, you're making generalizations that only apply to certain types of BP/harness system.

There is much to be said for the simplicity and comfort of a traditional BC.

Yes, I know ... I said that in my original post.

I have both and which I dive depends on the circumstances.

So do I ... but the person who started this thread was simply asking the question, "what's a backplate". My post was an attempt to answer that question, and to provide a new diver with enough understanding of the differences to know why they might want to consider one or the other.

I'm not quite sure what your purpose in trying to turn this discussion into an argument is all about.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I clip my SPG to my left shoulder D ring. But there are 6 additional smaller D rings along the back, 3 on each side, if I wanted to clip the SPG to one of those, with cave line.

I wear my Suunto on my wrist.

You can clip 4 stage tanks (of 40 cu ft each) to the 4 large D rings on the front and sides of it, two on each side, parallel to each other.

Canister lights normally fit between the twin tanks in the IANTD configuration or along the back on the smaller D rings supra.

I attach backup lights to the SPG hose(s). Halcyon backup lights.

I don't own anything made by SeaQuest. However my wife's wetsuit is made by SeaQuest. But her B/C is a Zeagle as well. Only the best, for the Amphibious Diving Kitty.

You left out argon bottle. That can go along the back of the Zeagle on the smaller D rings, opposite of the cannister light.

I do not dispute the versatility of a backplate rig for doubles. I dispute its appropriateness for single tank dives and for new divers who do not dive doubles, especially on trips to warm tropical islands.

Sounds like a Zeagle commercial ... if the number of D-rings on a BCD is what impresses you, check out Riptide. I think they've got more than the Zeagle Tech. Personally I don't need all that "stuff" ... neither will most of the newbies who read this forum.

Look. Zeagle makes a nice rig. So does ScubaPro, Genesis. Deep Outdoors, Dive Rite, Dacor, and a raft of others. No one manufacturer makes a rig that is "the best" for everyone. They've all got trade-offs, and what you decide is best for you will always be based on what advantages you feel is most important for the type of diving you're going to do.

As to your opinion that a BP/W is not appropriate for single tank dives ... I have to ask if you've ever tried it? And if so, for how many dives? I've tried a number of BCD's and personally worn out two before going to my current setup, and for me the BP/W gives a far more natural feel underwater than any BCD I ever wore. I see nothing inappropriate about wearing this rig with a single tank. And if you're going to be telling the new divers who read this forum that you think it's inappropriate, I feel it's important that you should give them some concrete reasons why you feel that way. So far nothing you've said seems to me to be a legitimate reason.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[RiverRat]

As to your opinion that a BP/W is not appropriate for single tank dives ... I have to ask if you've ever tried it? And if so, for how many dives? I've tried a number of BCD's and personally worn out two before going to my current setup, and for me the BP/W gives a far more natural feel underwater than any BCD I ever wore. I see nothing inappropriate about wearing this rig with a single tank. . So far nothing And if you're going to be telling the new divers who read this forum that you think it's inappropriate, I feel it's important that you should give them some concrete reasons why you feel that wayyou've said seems to me to be a legitimate reason.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Thanks Bob!
As a new diver it's frustrating to get beat down from LDS sales people, DM's and mostly industry folks (NOT ALL Industry folks, just SOME) just because we really want to get into diving and decide on how WE, as new divers, want to configure our gear. It seems to me that as the local dive shops just want to push expensive BC's they force the folks that work for them to spout off this rhetoric about how you MUST dive a jacket style BC and don't give a rats ass about REALLY teaching us how to get configured properly so we can learn to be good divers whether or not we choose a jacket or BP/W style. Instead they feel that 90% of us just want to spend our hard earned money on expensive gear that may or may not be right for us as we are all probably just once a year vacation divers. I could go on and on but I won't. I'm happy with my gear and skills and with what I've learned from the many folks on this board that have a different mindset than some of the industry clones out there.

Anyway, Thanks for looking out for the new divers!